Dogshift?

[Downshift 54]

Long story:

Spoiler

I grew up with Rottweilers.

We got our first one when I was maybe 6 or 7. Then my parents got another one when I was 16. I loved them so much.

 

My uncle had a Rhodesian Ridgeback around the same time, and now has two large English Cream Golden Retrievers.

Our cousins in AZ also had Rottweilers, and later had a pair of Great Dane Mastiffs ().

 

A few years ago my parents got a Doberman, Husky, German Shepard mix, who is their current dog.

One of my friends has an [insanely well trained and obedient] Doberman, and another has a few pit bulls.

 

So yeah, I like big dogs. I don't like cats or small lapdogs that get bullied by cats.

I think dogs should be members of the family, but also serve a purpose. Our Rotts were protectors. My mom and sisters had no qualms walking them around our bad part of town at night growing up. We didn't have a home alarm system. We slept well at night, etc. My uncle's Ridgeback was his jogging and hiking companion. My friend's Doberman basically runs the house when he's gone.

 

I didn't get a dog right when I moved out because I was poor AF and lived in tiny apartments and condos. If I could run out right now and get whatever puppy I wanted, I'd get a Doberman Pinscher. I'd leave him natural with a tail and ears, and spend every moment training him to be protective, loyal and obedient. He'd never jump on people, stop barking when commanded, would never try to run or chase to the point that the leash would just be for show. Every Doberman trained by a competent owner is like this. I'd also take him out to play at least twice a day.

This is what I want.

 

---

 

Wifeshift doesn't like animals in general. Like, at all.

She can't tell birds apart, can't tell a cockroach from a spider from a scorpion (they're all just "bugs"), gets super bored at the zoo after 20 min and doesn't listen or care about anyone talking about certain well known animals like lions, sharks or bears or any of their superlative traits. It's not that she can't understand, she just doesn't care that they exist on the planet.

They had one dog growing up, from when she was around 5 until high school, that she remembers nothing about. She never cared about the dog, doesn't remember what breed it was, doesn't remember ever playing with it, doesn't remember how her parents interacted with it; nothing. Straight up DGAF.

Father-in-LawShift said it was a black lab / border collie mix or something, that liked to swim in their pool. A medium sized dog around 40 lbs. Named Midnight.

 

Wifeshift's sister, however, does have a dog. A "Cockapoo". >.<. Cocker Spaniel Poodle mix.

She's actually pretty tolerable for a lapdog. Poodle so she doesn't shed ever. Larger than a Chihuahua so she's not a purse dog, and almost never barks. Still a lapdog though, and doesn't do anything but lounge around. Probably more to do with her owners because my sis and bro in law never exercise, so the dog never really gets played or walked much.

This dog is the only one Wifeshift likes, therefore if she ever wanted a dog, she'd want a tiny, quiet lapdog.

What's worse is that she thinks she's afraid of big dogs and doesn't like them.

 

My parent's Doberman, Husky, German Shepard mix is a good 80 lbs. She was a rescue they got when she was around 9 months old, so she's very quirky and disobedient. She's also incredibly loving and loyal. We house sat for my parents one week and my parents dog, just took to Wifeshift. Was attached to her leg the entire week and Wifeshift hated every moment because she just didn't like that particular dog because wouldn't obey commands as well as her sister's cockapoo would, and the dog wanted A LOT more attention and affection than her sister's lounging lapdog.

 

So even after we bought our house with our big yard, we still never got a dog because, as we both put it, "Downshift's dog would eat Wifeshift's dog."

In truth though, she just didn't want any type of animal in her house.

 

I've been pushing the issue fairly hard the past few weeks though. I started off saying I wanted to get a potted cactus, and then work my way up to a dog.

 

We've talked to family and friends about their pets, different dog breeds and all kinds of stuff, and she seems to be warming up to the idea of at least considering actually getting a dog.

The issue is still that I want a big dog that is well trained and can actually guard the house and protect her if she takes it for walks at night, and she would want a small lapdog that can sit on her lap while she watches TV or reads or whatever. We've done various dog breed quizzes and consistently end up on opponent ends of the spectrum.

For me, it almost seems pointless to get a tiny dog. If we're gonna commit the time and money to being dog owners, why not have a dog that can contribute to the household rather than just be a lounging roommate? As long as it's just just the two of us, we don't need a dog to be only a companion since we can keep each other company just fine (giggity).

A common suggestion is for each of us to get the dog we want and subsequently train and care primarily for our preferred dog. The first issue I see with this is that I've never trained two puppies simultaneously, especially two drastically different breeds. Then, I'm also of the mind that each dog should view both of us as its owner equally, and the owners shouldn't really show favoritism, especially if one dog takes to one owner moreso than the other. What if the lapdog develops a much stronger bond to me than with Wifeshift, and/or visa-versa with the guard dog taking to her more than me? I don't know.

 

Short Story:

The issue is that I want a big dog that is well trained and can actually guard the house and protect Wifeshift if she takes it for walks at night, and she would want a small lapdog that can sit on her lap while she watches TV or reads or whatever.

Should we compromise and get a medium size dog that might be too big for her but too small for me, or do we get two dogs at the same time?

[Anelle 792]

Don't get "separate" dogs, that's a total recipe for disaster. If y'all want 2 so that they have each other to grow with and stuff that's different but "his and her" ain't gonna be good for anyone

 

It sounds more like rather than focusing on specific big or small breeds y'all might consider browsing some shelter pups or even fostering a few to get a feel for whether a dog is actually gonna be a good fit for y'all's current lifestyle. 

[Galeigh 308]

Anelle pretty much nailed it. 

[webhead 519]

Find a medium size dog that is still a good protector maybe?  You can get a smaller golden retriever.  Friendliest dogs on earth but they know who their family is and will protect them.

 

Also seems like she would take to a well trained dog a lot better too.  Worth pointing out to her that the dog will listen to her when you guys are done with it.

[Stinkfist 33]

All terriers are bad people.  Dont get a terrier.

[MT 917]

I will not have you besmirch the good name of my West Highland Terrier, sir. That dog was a dumbass, but he was my dumbass.

[Downshift 54]

13 hours ago, Anelle said:

Don't get "separate" dogs, that's a total recipe for disaster. If y'all want 2 so that they have each other to grow with and stuff that's different but "his and her" ain't gonna be good for anyone

Cool, good to have validation on that.

I'd be fine with a smaller dog in addition to a big guard dog as long as it's not a little yappy rat dog like my Grandmother's old Shit-Zoo. Like a Min Pin mite.b.cool.

 

We've been looking into a few breeds for details on behavior, instincts, temperament, etc. Unfortunately, Wifeshift never met Kerbey, so she doesn't want a Corgi.

The Australian Cattle Dog / Blue Heeler and Border Collie were two we were looking into, but they both seem to be "too smart" for new owners. I'm hearing that if they aren't adequately stimulated both physically and intellectually, they act out and start destroying your house, chewing up all your shit, etc. I personally wouldn't mind the challenge, but I have to make sure Wifeshift has a good first experience here.

 

So I don't listen to her much, but from what I gathered from tuning in and out during our last conversation, this is Wifeshift's current list of requirements for a dog:

• Not big, under 50lbs
• Doesn't drool
• Minimal to no shedding
• Minimal to no grooming needed
• Does NOT excessively yap or bark
• Able to go on walks, runs and outdoor hikes
• Good with small kids (4 year old niece, any future babbies)
• Good with other pets (parent's dog)
• Able to be trained to obedience

 

It's unfortunate because other than that top requirement of not being a big dog, my Doberman would be a perfect candidate.

 

 

5 hours ago, webhead said:

Find a medium size dog that is still a good protector maybe?  You can get a smaller golden retriever.  Friendliest dogs on earth but they know who their family is and will protect them.

I don't generally think of Goldens as protective, in the sense that they're not intimidating deterrents.

The main benefit of a big guard dog for me is knowing that it's at the house keeping vigilant watch while she's there without me, or if she goes on walks out at night, etc. A dog that will deter anyone from approaching the house doors, or from approaching Wifeshift at all while she's out in public with it. A black lab might have that effect, but not a Golden.

[MT 917]

9 minutes ago, Downshift said:

• Does excessively yap or bark

That's a bit of an odd choice, but whatever works I guess.

[Downshift 54]

[Anelle 792]

Like... do you live in a former crackhouse or something why are you so concerned with a protector dog? 

[Tassifox 418]

5 hours ago, Stinkfist said:

All terriers are bad people.  Dont get a terrier.

 Highly disagree with Lucy's Kissy as my evidence to that. He was the perfect little gentleman when I visited and weaseled his way past my "no small dogs" rule. (Corgi's and Shiba's being the other 2 exception)

I 3rd Nelle's earliest post and recommendation for looking at shelter dogs. Most cases I've seen with shelter dogs they are already good with kids and other pets unless they're specified otherwise. And you'd be surprised at the gems you find in personalities from shelter animals.

[Downshift 54]

1 hour ago, Anelle said:

Like... do you live in a former crackhouse or something why are you so concerned with a protector dog? 

I lock my car even in ritzy neighborhoods.

I'm just an overly protective person in general, always have been. Little sisters, younger cousins and neighbors, premie niece, etc.

I want my dog to reflect my protective nature and be physically capable of backing up their bark.

[Anelle 792]

Fair, just all the emphasis on it makes it seem like you got like....ENEMIES or something lol

[Galeigh 308]

Cocker Spaniels might be worth looking into. They are on the smaller end of medium but bond heavily with their family and are very protective. 

My dog Lily was a cocker spaniel and she was sweetheart to us and people we invited in, but was not afraid to snap and growl when she thought we were in trouble. 

[Lucy 108]

Terriers are actually the route you want to consider as a compromise! Medium sized, so small enough for sofa snuggles but large enough to be a "real" dog.. They're also loyal and brave pack and home defenders; 1 of our Smooth Fox Terriers saved mum from an attacking dog, another saved his babysitter from a mugger with a knife. An Airedale, a Kerry Blue, or a Fox Terrier might suit you - Airedales especially are 50-80lb so skirting that medium-large line, but still not too huge to put Wifeshift off hopefully. 

 

The other suggestion in the topic of visiting your local shelters to find a doggo that needs a home and appeals to both of you is also great!

[Galeigh 308]

Terriers are very hyper though. 

[Tassifox 418]

That's when you get a bubble blowing machine and let them have at it.

[Stinkfist 33]

Terriers.  Not even once.

[Downshift 54]

2 hours ago, Stinkfist said:

Terriers.  Not even once.

Y tho

[Deimos 100]

Time for a divorce and then you can get all the good boys and good girls you want. 

[Downshift 54]

Looking into shelter dogs, turns out Wifeshift wants a puppy from a breeder. Bad experiences with dogs having unknown health defects due to its breeding history, temperamental issues from early life traumas, etc. Pretty sure my parents dog has something to do with that. Their dog was 9 months old when rescued and due to something with her previous owner, anyone with a hat on in the house or a beard longer than a full inch basically faces persistent hostility.

 

She's been doing her own research though and because I like Dobermans, she was looking into a Beagleman / Dobeagle. A Beagle + Doberman Pinscher mix:

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

They seem to vary widely in physical traits and coloration, but Wifeshift likes the way all the variants look.

My only concern is that everyone I've talked to about Beagles say that they're hard to train since they're not as bright as other breeds like Border Collies, Poodles, Dobermans and Labs. They also warn that they were bred as hunting dogs that are prone to run... and keep running.

I guess this is a newer breed so they're not too prevalent in shelters and it's also very hard to find information on the temperament traits they get from their Beagle lineage.

[diamarie 15]

Quote

Quote

Get a mixed breed pup

 

 

[Deimos 100]

Pitbulls then. Most loyal breed. ??

[Downshift 54]

If we did that, I'm pretty sure her parents and sister would never come visit us ever again...

 

Spoiler

 

[Stinkfist 33]

12 hours ago, Downshift said:

Y tho

They're assholes.  Dont get me wrong, I love our dog.  But he's an asshole.  They have the small dog syndrome.  They gotta bark real loud to compensate.

 

It's funny, whenever our dog encounters a bigger dog and gets scared by him, he compensates and goes into "predator mode"  looking for smaller dogs to bully to boost his ego.

 

Get a nice big slobbering dumbdumb like a golden retriever. 

[Galeigh 308]

Yeah, Terriers can be straight up assholes. Especially if you have other dogs. Lily would constant go off on Roxy, my moms yorkshire terrier, because Roxy thought she was the big bitch in town and would nip at Lily to exert dominance. It never ended well for Roxy cause Lily had no tolerance for her shit. We always stopped it before any real dmg was done (a few scratches is the worst to ever happen), but my mom refused to accept that Roxy was the problem despite her being 100% the initiator of the conflict

[Lucy 108]

Terriers need to be trained and kept in hand, and are no more automatic assholes than pitbulls are automatically violent, ie they're not.

 

On topic, the Beagle Doberman hybrid sounds interesting!

[Tassifox 418]

I'm surprised that Wifeshift wants a puppy then if she wants low maintenance. Because puppies are very much the opposite of that. But at least she's taking your wants into as much consideration as you are hers by doing research. I also agree with Lucy, any breed you gotta be firm on your training. (Not like I really have to tell you Shift because you've been around dogs) My mom has a beagle mutt mix and spoils her horribly. So of course it took me awhile for me to semi train her to be different around me because I don't put up with what my mom lets slide. 

[Downshift 54]

6 hours ago, Tassifox said:

I'm surprised that Wifeshift wants a puppy then if she wants low maintenance. Because puppies are very much the opposite of that. But at least she's taking your wants into as much consideration as you are hers by doing research.

She doesn't really *want* any dog at all.

 

It's like when we went out to buy my Nissan sports car years ago, before we were married. I asked her if she liked the car. She stared at me with this "I don't want to say what I'm thinking face" for a good 15 seconds and then said, "I like that you like it..."

 

She may think she hates big dogs, but she knows that getting a dog is what I want most in life right now, and something I've wanted since before we met. So if we do end up getting a dog, she thinks she's going to hate being a dog owner and will only be doing so for my sake (I know she'll love the dog tho).

Problem is, it won't be like my car where all she has to do is walk around it to her own car every so often and doesn't ever have to deal with driving it, parking it, getting gas, changing oil, doing repairs or anything. This dog will depend on her as much as on me, probably moreso since she's going to be at home twice as much as I will be for the foreseeable future.

Therefore, in her eyes this dog ownership stint has to go as perfectly as possible and that means planning for the long run. She wants the dog to be trained as well as possible to be as socialized and obedient as possible from as early an age as possible. And that means a puppy.

Wifeshift doesn't half ass anything or cut corners. Even if she hates doing something, she'll dedicate the time and effort to do it right the first time.

[Downshift 54]

---

We're both kind of leaning away from Beagles a bit now. Their temperament doesn't really match what either of us are looking for.

She was looking into both Springer Spaniels and Border Collies, but only the Smooth Coat Border Collies to avoid the heaving shedding and grooming needs of the showdog variant of the breed. I really like the idea of a Border Collie but as premier herding dogs, they have no issue running a good half mile away from you across a pasture to flank herds and therefore are kind of the opposite of personal protection dogs like Dobermans.

 

Of course, then Wifeshift found the Doberman Collie, the hybrid of the Doberman Pincher and Border Collie:

Spoiler

Rough Coat

 

Smooth Coat

 

Thing with this hybrid breed appears to be that they're harder to socialize to strangers, and they're also nearly as big as a Doberman anyway, just a little shorter and not as lanky. A good bit bigger than the Beagleman, but the same issue where there might not be many, or any in shelters.

Still, this is a mix of arguably two of the smartest breeds on the planet, and probably one of the most energetic breeds period.

 

[Stinkfist 33]

16 hours ago, Lucy said:

Terriers need to be trained and kept in hand, and are no more automatic assholes than pitbulls are automatically violent, ie they're not.

 

On topic, the Beagle Doberman hybrid sounds interesting!

I mean, terriers definitely need more training... doesn't that imply an inherent asshole...ery?

 

You cant deny they're naturally stubborn dogs.  Look at this asshole.

He's been staring at me for 5 minutes without breaking his gaze.  He just wants a treat.  If I give it to him he'll run away and wont acknowledge me again until he wants something else.  I'm basically just here to feed him and clean up his poop, that's all we're good for to him.

[Downshift 54]

So did American Pit Bull Terriers inherit their ancestral Terrier asshole...ish...ness?

[Stinkfist 33]

Big dogs can't be assholes because nobody would like them if they were.  They have to be lovable.  Its science.

[Garlic Junior 136]

18 hours ago, Galeigh said:

Yeah, Terriers can be straight up assholes. Especially if you have other dogs. Lily would constant go off on Roxy, my moms yorkshire terrier, because Roxy thought she was the big bitch in town and would nip at Lily to exert dominance. It never ended well for Roxy cause Lily had no tolerance for her shit. We always stopped it before any real dmg was done (a few scratches is the worst to ever happen), but my mom refused to accept that Roxy was the problem despite her being 100% the initiator of the conflict

 

As I read this, my Yorky called Roxy is currently barking at my sister's dog because it is like ONE INCH bigger than her.

 

Fucking terriers man.

[Downshift 54]

4 hours ago, Stinkfist said:

He's been staring at me for 5 minutes without breaking his gaze.  He just wants a treat.  If I give it to him he'll run away and wont acknowledge me again until he wants something else.  I'm basically just here to feed him and clean up his poop, that's all we're good for to him.

This is precisely what I *don't* want in a dog and why I lean towards larger guard dogs and working dogs.

But like... there are TONS of different types of Terriers. Thery're not all like this are they?

[Stinkfist 33]

Nah theres probably tons of breeds that arent like that.  But theres tons that are, so it's best just to discriminate. 

[Tassifox 418]

Lucy can definitely debate the other half of this

[Lucy 108]

Not when she's drunk she cant

 

But yeah Stinkwhatever your terrier is gorgeous, 10/10 would pet

[Garlic Junior 136]

WHO WOULD BARK AT THIS BOI

[Stinkfist 33]

8 hours ago, Lucy said:

Not when she's drunk she cant

 

But yeah Stinkwhatever your terrier is gorgeous, 10/10 would pet

would bite.

 

Not because he's afraid.  Just because he's a dick.  His name is dick.

[Downshift 54]

So Airedales can't be trained to not bite?

[Lucy 108]

Any dog can be trained not to bite, I think Stinkfist just has a bit of a bias  

[Stinkfist 33]

It's funny, my wife just sent me a link of the top 10 most disobedient dogs and welsh terriers were #8.

 

[Tassifox 418]

5 hours ago, Lucy said:

Any dog can be trained not to bite, I think Stinkfist just has a bit of a bias  

This.

[Downshift 54]

6 hours ago, Lucy said:

Any dog can be trained not to bite, I think Stinkfist just has a bit of a bias  

Or he just sucks at obedience training.

I kid, I kid...

 

On 4/3/2019 at 10:28 AM, Downshift said:

Wifeshift's current list of requirements for a dog:

• Not big, under 50lbs
• Doesn't drool
• Minimal to no shedding
• Minimal to no grooming needed
• Does NOT excessively yap or bark
• Able to go on walks, runs and outdoor hikes
• Good with small kids (4 year old niece, any future babbies)
• Good with other pets (parent's dog)
• Able to be trained to obedience

I've been trying to get more out of her on what she would want from her dog on a daily basis, and one thing she said is that she basically wanted a couch dog that she could snuggle up with on the couch. Another reason she doesn't want it to be too big.

 

Looking into more temperaments, she's actually intrigued by both American Pit Bull Terriers, but probably more by the American Stratfordshire Terrier because most people aren't afraid only of its name.

I started having her look into PIts and Am Staffs due to Matt's [now deleted] endorsing comments on his dogs and also her sister saying that a Pit would be really good with our niece if they came to visit, saying they're one of the best breeds around children.

"Nanny dogs".

They seem to check a lot of the boxes but she's still unsure due to their reputation as "natural bred killers" and the fact that they're straight up banned in certain US cities and even entire modern Western countries.

 

I have a friend who has at least three Pits, so we might go visit so she can socialize with them and see how she likes the breed in person.

[Anelle 792]

*pounds fists on desk and chants* PIBBLE PIBBLE PIBBLE PIBBLE PIBBLE

[Lucy 108]

10 minutes ago, Downshift said:

• Minimal to no shedding
• Minimal to no grooming needed

Lol, pick one

 

Any breed with short hair that doesn't require much maintenance will shed regularly, though this can be reduced with some light grooming with a rubber mitt or curry brush or similar; any breed that sheds significantly less usually has longer hair that needs much more regular brushing and/or trimming. 

[MT 917]

Pitbulls are only vicious because they were trained/raised to be, just like any other dog.

[Downshift 54]

 

24 minutes ago, MT said:

Pitbulls are only vicious because they were trained/raised to be, just like any other dog.

She's seen a lot of reviews and stuff saying they're good around kids... but never to leave them with kids unsupervised, like you can with Goldens and Labs.

There's also the issue of them not playing or living peacefully with other dogs and animals. That'd be an issue if we tried to leave it with my parents and their dog when we went on trips.

It's really hard to separate truth from anecdotal horror stories with this breed. ?

 

27 minutes ago, Lucy said:

Lol, pick one

 

Any breed with short hair that doesn't require much maintenance will shed regularly, though this can be reduced with some light grooming with a rubber mitt or curry brush or similar; any breed that sheds significantly less usually has longer hair that needs much more regular brushing and/or trimming. 

I noticed this when looking more into the both the Rough Coat Border Collie and the Smooth Coat Border Collie. From what I can tell, even though Smooth Coats have much shorter hair, they actually shed more than Rough Coat Border Collies.

I remember that our Rotties would shed and leave black hair all along the walls if we didn't brush them in the backyard at least once weekly. But we never really had to clean, "comb" or groom their coat.

I think if we had to choose one, Wifeshift would definitely go for the less shedding because it'll mean a marginally cleaner house. We do have a pair of Roombas and no carpet, but as any pet owner knows, hair can get anywhere and everywhere...

[Tassifox 418]

Dude just show her any youtube vid of how pibbles are around kids sure it doesn't prove against the unsupervised part but seriously this stuff is cute af