[Final Fantasy General]

[Mera'din 308]

Last DLC for FFXV came out Monday. Episode Ardyn, setting up the back story and answering some big questions about the games main villain. They had planned for like 2 or 3 more of these, but they got canceled when the games director left the company. Unfortunate as one of them was supposed to be about Lunafreya who desperately needed some fleshing out.

 

Was also a 15 minute anime "prologue" they released about a month before hand.

 

[Shade Aurion 54]

I truly found him to be one of the most unlikeable villains in the Final Fantasy series. Flip flopping motives, shitty personality, less character development than the black chocobo.. I dunno if this can save him. It might be too little too late. TBH I would have preferred Episode: Lunafreya and be able to rock a team of Luna, Cindy, Iris and Aranaea. That would have ruled!

[Mera'din 308]

I disagree 100%. He's easily one of the best. His motivations and actions were clear by the end and he actually won technically speaking. He got what he wanted. Most effective villain in the series since Kefka. The relative mysteries surrounding his origin (which is the purpose of this) made him interesting and kept a lot of speculation around the game after it came out without feeling like something was just plain missing from the game (unlike characters like Luna where it literally just felt like they removed chunks of story because they did. Thanks SJWs. >_> ).

[Galeigh 308]

I am mixed on Ardyn, there are aspects that worked (like him showing up everywhere you are but not actually attacking you) and aspects that didn't (the hard turn from misunderstood victim to pure evil)

 

To me FF15 was more about a bunch of friends having a blast on a road trip until things went south and they bonded to become more like brothers in the end. (the car crash and that final campsite chat hit me HARD in the feels) So Ardyn was more a catalyst than a real villain.

[Shade Aurion 54]

On 3/28/2019 at 9:00 AM, Mera'din said:

I disagree 100%. He's easily one of the best. His motivations and actions were clear by the end and he actually won technically speaking. He got what he wanted. Most effective villain in the series since Kefka. The relative mysteries surrounding his origin (which is the purpose of this) made him interesting and kept a lot of speculation around the game after it came out without feeling like something was just plain missing from the game (unlike characters like Luna where it literally just felt like they removed chunks of story because they did. Thanks SJWs. >_> ).

I WAS liking him until he just decided to fuck off his 'plan' early and ice Lunafreya on a whim. A which point the whole game itself began to suffer as what was this huge promising journey was stiffled from being phoned in with a quick jump to the future after few short chapters later so future Ardyn could.. what, attack you with a quick time event? And then Lunafreya just live anyways because reasons.

(I hope you're ready to deal with some cynicism)

I'm not saying he doesn't need a DLC chapter because if anything, he needed more development than anyone but he was just some ominous character til suddenly he just decided he was the main villain because reasons. I really think they could have done better with him. They could have tied in Kingsglaive tighter and really emphasized the double agent super betrayal and revenge plot better but overall he was just so damn unlikeable to me. I was liking him.. even for that long ass car ride but he was kinda just a dick in the end which kinda blows because usually I like the villains though in saying that, perhaps this DLC giving him some much needed development and bolstered motivations will see that change for me.

I dunno about him being the most successful either. Ultimecia was vastly more successful, as was Chaos, Kuja, Exdeath, Sephiroth, etc (and I can go on)

 

It's fine to have a difference of opinion here and I acknowledge his lame world domination plan worked out well for him til he decided that QTEs were his ultimate weakness, but I dunno if that really trumps Ultimecia absorbing time, space and existence or Sephiroth just deciding he is about as dead as he feels like being at any given moment after trying to destroy all life on the planet and sail it around the cosmos destroying life everywhere or Kuja ruling two whole planets or Exdeath merging two whole planets, controlling all demons and building a world of "despair"..

Ardyn is kind in the low middle and sure, his plan for the most part works til Noctis teleports into the future in a crystal with Bahamut because reasons, but you could also argue that most if not all FF villains would've succeeded if it weren't for the protagonists and most had loftier goals ?

I'm glad Ardyn got a DLC, but I think its shitty Square just phoned it in with the DLC and skipped the last one even though many, like myself had already forked out for the season pass. In any even, i'm glad we'll be able to explore Crown City. I hope being set in the past they show more story for Regis and his Kingsglaive dudes. I'd say they needed a DLC too but really, there could have been a prequel game made out of the events of Kingsglaive and I REALLY would have loved fighting Diamond WEAPON. I was disappointed the WEAPONs made no appearance after that.

[Psycho666Soldier 283]

13 hours ago, Shade Aurion said:

I WAS liking him until he just decided to fuck off his 'plan' early and ice Lunafreya on a whim. A which point the whole game itself began to suffer as what was this huge promising journey was stiffled from being phoned in with a quick jump to the future after few short chapters later so future Ardyn could.. what, attack you with a quick time event? And then Lunafreya just live anyways because reasons.

(I hope you're ready to deal with some cynicism)

I'm not saying he doesn't need a DLC chapter because if anything, he needed more development than anyone but he was just some ominous character til suddenly he just decided he was the main villain because reasons. I really think they could have done better with him. They could have tied in Kingsglaive tighter and really emphasized the double agent super betrayal and revenge plot better but overall he was just so damn unlikeable to me. I was liking him.. even for that long ass car ride but he was kinda just a dick in the end which kinda blows because usually I like the villains though in saying that, perhaps this DLC giving him some much needed development and bolstered motivations will see that change for me.

I dunno about him being the most successful either. Ultimecia was vastly more successful, as was Chaos, Kuja, Exdeath, Sephiroth, etc (and I can go on)

 

It's fine to have a difference of opinion here and I acknowledge his lame world domination plan worked out well for him til he decided that QTEs were his ultimate weakness, but I dunno if that really trumps Ultimecia absorbing time, space and existence or Sephiroth just deciding he is about as dead as he feels like being at any given moment after trying to destroy all life on the planet and sail it around the cosmos destroying life everywhere or Kuja ruling two whole planets or Exdeath merging two whole planets, controlling all demons and building a world of "despair"..

Ardyn is kind in the low middle and sure, his plan for the most part works til Noctis teleports into the future in a crystal with Bahamut because reasons, but you could also argue that most if not all FF villains would've succeeded if it weren't for the protagonists and most had loftier goals ?

I'm glad Ardyn got a DLC, but I think its shitty Square just phoned it in with the DLC and skipped the last one even though many, like myself had already forked out for the season pass. In any even, i'm glad we'll be able to explore Crown City. I hope being set in the past they show more story for Regis and his Kingsglaive dudes. I'd say they needed a DLC too but really, there could have been a prequel game made out of the events of Kingsglaive and I REALLY would have loved fighting Diamond WEAPON. I was disappointed the WEAPONs made no appearance after that.

I don't disagree with this post, but I feel like Sephiroth doesn't really belong in the most successful.  He fails in destroying the planet, and then fails again after his remnants try to pick up the pieces.

[Mera'din 308]

12 hours ago, Shade Aurion said:

 And then Lunafreya just live anyways because reasons.

 

No? Like, she never comes back to life. She's dead. Noct is dead. The end is them in the afterlife. >_>

 

Ardyn was presented as the main villain a lot sooner in the game than some others. Orphan, Yu Yevon, Zeromus and Necron all kind of came out of fucking nowhere practically at the ass end of the game. I feel we could have done with a lot more visual representation of what he did to Nifelheim though. It was a threat and then it was just... gone. Destroying the world wasn't his goal either way. It was basically just a means to an end. His whole intention was to push Noct into accepting his destiny so he could face him at full strength ("You and your crystal against all that I have become"). Even more so (which was conjecture before, but basically confirmed with what the prologue for the DLC shows) he wanted to put Noct through a similar situation to what he went through. His betrothed dying in front of him, his friends and status being stripped away as he suffered torment after torment and then being sealed away. He got all of that. He was waiting for Noct's return. He wanted revenge for being betrayed by his brother and spurned by the Gods and the Crystal. He wanted an end to the line of Lucian kings and got exactly that. Either he would kill Noct and end the line or Noct would have to sacrifice himself to save the world and completely destroy Ardyn in an act of mutually assure destruction. When he's beat he doesn't rant and rave. He basically tells Noct he'll be waiting for him, indicating he's not actually gone and forcing Noct's hand to destroy him in "the beyond". 

Ultimate point is: You're looking at the wrong "end game" for him. He wasn't the atypical "Fuck the planet I'mma destroy all the things" villain like a lot of FF baddies. He had specific goals of revenge and had a couple thousand years to hatch a plan that offered a "no win" scenario to his target. Ifrit was the one who wanted all the people dead, not Ardyn. I call him one of the most successful because even his defeat still saw his goal achieved which is untrue of most of the others.

 

13 hours ago, Shade Aurion said:

til he decided that QTEs were his ultimate weakness,

Because he's the only FF villain to go out on a cheesy "can't lose" final encounter? Sephiroth and Yu Yevon would like to have a word with you. Maybe others. Don't recall off the top of my head and I should have been in bed 2 hours ago. X_x

 

6 minutes ago, Psycho666soldier said:

 I feel like Sephiroth doesn't really belong in the most successful.  He fails in destroying the planet, and then fails again after his remnants try to pick up the pieces.

Definitely not. Especially since most of what he even accomplishes during the game is thanks to Jenova. Otherwise he'd just have been a pissed off narcissistic sociopath stuck in a rock. XD

[Shade Aurion 54]

I dunno, even without Jenova Sephiroth is good at killing and stabbing people. He mops the floor with most places he visited. Attributing his success only to Jenova is like attributing Ardyn's success only to the daemons trapped within him.

Nevertheless, Noctic dying in the end makes the story of 15 and Ardyn even more unlikable. You're repeatedly told you're being groomed to be a king but in reality, you're being groomed to die as the last of your line. Your friends, fiance, father.. they all die because Ardyn has a hate boner from years ago when he was supposed to take over as king and is essentially having a super drawn out temper tantrum. Sure its one of those shitty moments in animes where the villain puts the protagonist in a situation where he knows the same pain as he does, but like in the vast majority of those stories, the hero answers back with "Yeah, but i'm not a cunt tho" and kills him. Most of the shit Ardyn is whining about Noctis is totally ignorant to. Ardyn giving a summary here and there doesn't mean Noctis learns anything. All he learns is "Wait, so i'm not going to be a king and I have to die to defeat this asshole who killed everyone I cared about ensuring no 'good' ending? Well everything is fucked anyway" *suicides* There is nothing great or deep about that. It's pompous bullshit. Frankly I would have appreciated it more if Ardyn was more vocal about his disdain because it was a classic 'sins of the father' moment and really, I would have preferred senseless killing from someone who stopped caring than someone gathering up all their salt and crushing people who have little to no clue over why he's mad with it. It's fine for us as the player and maybe the DLC will make it feel less shitty, but i've already finished the game so they're going to be doing patchwork on a sunken ship already.

there was a lot I liked about FF15 but the many things I didn't like, I still don't like. Ardyn is one of them. Cool you like him for legit reasons, but as it stands I don't. You'd think being granted immortality that he'd set his sights a little higher than killing his brother's descendants or grooming a child to be like him only to kill him rending it all pointless once he understands and is killed or, sacrifices himself and ends the lineage altogether. No one gets to play king anymore. Waah! Fucking stupid.

I would have rathered have the beginning section just have a shit tonne of hunts and the game end at Leviathan. Have Ardyn kill Luna and then in a rage Noct kill Ardyn and then have to rationalize all the killing to himself but his bros not die. I mean in the normal ending it's like cool, the endless night is gone. Maybe the remnants of humanity gets to live..but we'll never know. Oh well! lol 

I will likely play through this again sometime soon but I doubt i'll be changing my mind on much unlike when I replayed FF8, 9 and 10. Its a story about immortal butthurt and killing teenagers because waah. Dumb.

[Mera'din 308]

 

That was the point though. Nobody knew who he was. His existence was stricken from history because his brother was a giant backstabbing fuck. It wasn't just a temper tantrum. We learn from the anime thing that he didn't even want to be king. He just wanted to help people. But then his brother decided to go all Game of Thrones on his ass because presumably the crystal HAD intended to choose Ardyn but then pulled the rug out from under him in his time of need and rejected him, resulting in his fiance being stabbed trying to protect him. His brother then proceeds to gaslight the kingdom into thinking he was always the chosen one and Ardyn was a monster who attacked for no reason and was the cause of the starscourge and then they seal him away for THOUSANDS of years. I'd be pretty fucking salty too. Also, he didn't care if Noct knew why he was doing what he did. He just wanted him to suffer. No, it isn't justified, but Ardyn was fucking insane by that point. He spent his entire life trying to keep people safe from the starscourge only to have it start corrupting him, and it all get thrown back in his face by the gods he was supposed to chosen by and have it all erased from existence while he had to sit and stew on it for a couple millennia. It wasn't supposed to make sense to anyone else. That's why it was so effective. Nobody knew who he was, nobody knew why he was doing it. 

5 hours ago, Shade Aurion said:

Its a story about immortal butthurt and killing teenagers because waah.

I think you just described a good chunk of the history of European wars of succession.  

 

5 hours ago, Shade Aurion said:

Nevertheless, Noctic dying in the end makes the story of 15 and Ardyn even more unlikable. You're repeatedly told you're being groomed to be a king but in reality, you're being groomed to die as the last of your line.

That was supposed to be Noct's fate all along. It was the point of the game. It was his last moments of freedom. His father knew it. It's part of why he sent him away. He was the prophesied "Chosen King" who was meant to sacrifice himself for the good of the world.

 

The game definitely has problems. There are holes in the story that we really needed filled. The DLC was helping with that quite a bit. I haven't replayed it yet, but my understanding is the "Royal Edition" DLC adds a bunch of cutscenes and some context to things throughout the game and the individual DLCs had a lot of interesting stuff in them. Also, if you hated the ending that much, I recommend the Ignis DLC. It has a complete rewritten/alternate ending that was really cool and is probably closer to what you wanted (including the point in the game where you think it should have ended more or less).

 

Side note, I honestly miss these argument/discussions with you. Welcome back man. ?? 

 

[Shade Aurion 54]

Hahaha! I realize that when I am writing about this I come off as snarky as possible and I am doing it on purpose because I find it hilarious. Something about that level of passionate butthurt is fun to write and retarded to read back to one's self. To be honest I really just wish they took the KingsGlaive movie, the anime, that shitty Beat Em Up game and just make it a two-part game with the amalgamation of the aforementioned being something of a prequel to Noctic's tale. Noctis dying to save the world would go from being anti-climactic to crazy climactic if we had all the necessary back story to build up to the moment. Instead we got snipits and after thoughts and I know I wasn't the only one going "Um, what? WHAT?!"

For as much as I bitch about 15, I like as much as I hate. I look back on a lot of it fondly and genuinely will be playing it again soon. I bought the Windows version awhile ago. Sucks that Comrades got axed though apparently, it might come to PC later down the line after the kinks are worked out (though I won't hold my breath) Just Ardyn.. In the beginning I liked him, at the end I hated him and now there is a DLC and I might as well play it since I own it already and I hope it makes me neutral or even pro-Ardyn. It's fine he didn't give a shit if Noctis knew anything but as the player playing as Noctis, I wanted to know why he was acting like a god damn spaz.  That's what foreshadowing and end game villainous speeches are for and it's fine that he broke the mold on that but it shouldn't be up to movies and DLC released years after the fact to help me understand the motives of such an important character. At least give me scenes from the perspectives of other characters having flashbacks or something.

 

I truly wish Ravus and Aranea had more of a role in game and were subordinants to Ardyn because in some way his plan appealed to their motivations. Half my problem is the "just because" mentality that has seemed to be prevalent in Final Fantasy games since 13.  I care and want to know why shit happens and for it to matter. To be honest, all this talking about it will probably make me go and play Episode Ardyn now. Also I didn't know Ignis' DLC changed the ending. I thought it would just be about him discovering a new recipe a hundred more times and in a way.. I hoped it would be I will always remember how good the first half of 15 felt. It was too care free sure but it was great while it lasted having a huge open world like that to enjoy. They should have milked it for a lot longer. I think then it wouldn't have felt so abrupt. And maybe cut out 3 of the shorter chapters and just have them as 1 chapter. That shit felt like artifical "See our game is long" bullshit.

And yeah same, I missed it too ?? Hardly anyone knows as much about FF than you do and for as much of a dick I am about things I do think about things from your perspective. I have weird biases and sometimes I feed them on purpose XD Like Ardyns hat..I hated it. He car was sweet though. It shouldn't have anything to do with his character yet I think about both those things every time I see his smug ass face knowing that behind it is a guy who gave up a long time ago yet still has enough motivation to take over the world he no longer wishes to save and..and.. i'm ranting again.  All I know is Arenea is bae and I would have loved a girl power team up set before Luna gets shivved.

I like Ardyn more then I like Seymour but I like him far less then I like Vayne. And I fucking love Kuja and I don't know why, I just do XD And Jecht. Why do I like Jecht? I feel like I should dislike him more then I do. I like him WAY MORE then I like Tidus XD Give me a FF10-3 with young Braska, Auron and Jecht. I would play that shit

[Eizan 126]

Guys, everyone knows that Necron is the best Final Fantasy Villian. 

 

[Shade Aurion 54]

[Mera'din 308]

6 hours ago, Shade Aurion said:

That's what foreshadowing and end game villainous speeches are for and it's fine that he broke the mold on that but it shouldn't be up to movies and DLC released years after the fact to help me understand the motives of such an important character. At least give me scenes from the perspectives of other characters having flashbacks or something.

 

This was kind of XV's biggest fault. Despite it's eternal development cycle, most of the game was actually made in the last year and a half or so so it was missing a LOT. They did what they could between adding stuff for free, the Royal Edition (XV's version of a Final Mix or "International" version with added stuff), and the DLC but it made everything a bit disjointed. I still loved it though. What we got was impressive all things considered and it went a long way to restoring my faith in the series. There was so much more we could have got from it to if the director hadn't left. We NEEDED the rest of the new DLC to complete the story it feels like. All the still remaining gaps would have been filled. Luna's would make her a real character and shown her views and motivations as well as go through why her work still wasn't done even in death. Aranea's would have filled in the fall of Nifilheim that got kind of shoved on us in the main game out of nowhere, and the one for Noctis sounds like it would have been another "alternate timeline" thing like what the alternate ending for Ignis' dlc was but more extensive (the description refers to him "parting ways with the Astrals" and working to attain an "ideal future for all his people"). I guess they're turning the Luna/Aranea one's into a book so that's something I guess? 

 

Even Comrades had it's place in the story to a degree and provided some insight on things while Noct was gone. Really hate they they tore it out of the game and made it a standalone, especially since it made it impossible to 100% the trophy list for now XV if you didn't do everything in it before that point. >_<

 

I understand the issues the game has, but I honestly invested a lot more in it from having to connect the dots and figure out what it all meant vs having it handed to me. I know it basically amounted to poor development management and story telling to a point, but I loved it because of that. Even the secret dungeon has a sort of story to tell and I loved that.

 

On another note, you may like Prompto's DLC as well. Gameplay is a little awkward but it fills in some of the Nifilheim stuff and features Aranea in it as well and shows what she was up to during part of the game where Prompto is missing.

 

6 hours ago, Eizan said:

Guys, everyone knows that Necron is the best Final Fantasy Villian. 

Can't fool me. Everyone knows Ultros is the best.

[Shade Aurion 54]

Ultros IS the best XD

Yeah, I can agree with all of that. I really wouldn't have minded them push it back 2 years so they could actually complete it. Bailing right at the end when people had already paid for already announced DLC was truly poor form. Even with the director gone, he would have had plans and someone could have and should have taken over. It makes me worry for how they intend to make FF7RE episodic but there is a lot that worries me about that, using the battle system of FF15 being one of them (I wouldn't have minded something similar to FF12's TBH to pace up battles)

 

With the way the game has been butchered, you'd think with all the profits Square made on it, they'd want to patch it up as much as possible so it's at least remembered as complete in the history books. That said though, apparently, Windows Edition comes with Comrades permanently built in and just gets all the extra content and bosses free so i'll probably just replay it on Steam. At least then I can rock 4k and playing it from the beginning see all the new scenes in a more complete sense. Maybe knowing what I already know i'll pick up on things that weren't eluded to properly at launch or added in later.

I do genuinely like a lot of the story and characters. Like most characters actually. Prompto, Ignis, Gladiolus, Iris, Aranea, Noctis, Regis, Lunafreya, etc.. they were all great, though Gladiolus' hate boner for Noct in the later game got old fast. It was just launched half baked as a cash grab and suffered for that and it sucks. It does make me look forward to FF16 though and cross my fingers that the Agni's Philosophy 2012 tech demo becomes a full game ??

I feel like with better guidance, the game could have been steered in a better way. Everything was too abrupt or not abrupt enough. Even Ignis being blinded was like a random mistake at the end of the game and now your bud is permanently blind and everyone hates you for it. So much stuff like that just missed the mark. It could have been executed better and more dramatically and maybe not had friendly AI switch from happy go lucky voice lines to pure disdain forever from there on lol. I fucking hated that whole no weapons jump scare part too. Completely shitty. It would have been fine but if they cut it by 2/3rds of the time it took to complete. It was too long with too many similar corridors with too many shitty magitech knights. It was cool seeing them up close but 15 minutes in that shit was tiresome. An hour and a half later I was completely over it and for it all to end with randomly being trapped in a crystal with all your tired and injured buddies just left there with demons approaching was whack. 

I loved the first half so much..What happened? It's a shame they never made the events of the Platinum demo part of the actual game too. I feel like these days Square blows half the budget on pretty androgynous main characters and markets them like crazy without having much cool stuff to back them up.  They did it with 13 as well. There were toys, apparel, statues everywhere at launch and everyone that liked it, they liked it just because, but then a ways into the game many gave up. I had two friends who bought the collectors edition just give half of it away and they hate the game now. I don't mind it, like 15 it had its flaws (and I scored a free CE hardcover guide) but they need to market the story, not the characters. The story needs to matter. It's why FF7, 8 and 9 were great. 10 started to get rocking with a lot of "just because" shit. Like Tidus being the dream of Bahamut from 1000 years ago sucked into the past by sin, a creature that exists because yu yevon wants to maintain a cycle of death and feed off the dead and in the end after everything is set right Tidus high fives his dad and stops existing and FUCKING WHAT?! 12 had it going back to meaningful story then 13 came along and retconned their story twice til hardly anyone cared. Square need to cut that shit out lol

Fuck I could rant about this shit forever XD

[Psycho666Soldier 283]

I unfortunately don't have time to read the last big wall posts, as curious as I am, but I'd just like to chime in with what I've read and skimmed through: FFXV's story was a palatable disaster due to the extended development time and constant changes.  As has been said, great ideas that just were never fleshed out.  But the gameplay was probably the best you could make in the modern era without resorting to traditional JRPG turn-based style.  Some tweaks here and there, but I felt they really struck that balance of "ARPG that still makes you feel like you're playing a JRPG."  And as an overall package, it was easily the most satisfying Final Fantasy since X(or XII depending on your opinion).  It definitely brought back that sense of exploration and discovery over a fascinating world.

 

If only the open world had a couple more fleshed out towns, and wasn't completely disassociated from the linear main story section.  Just imagine if we could have explored those areas where the train stops at.

[Mera'din 308]

8 hours ago, Shade Aurion said:

It was just launched half baked as a cash grab and suffered for that and it sucks. It does make me look forward to 

 

I wouldn't really say that. It was more "We can't keep hemorrhaging money on this anymore. Do what you can." It WAS their own fault though. I don't think Tetsuya Nomura had slept since KH2 came out with the way they were running him. He was lead designer on Vs XIII, KH3, and was also still in charge of creative direction for the side KH titles, not to mention any character design work he was doing. On top of that their in house engine was apparently fucking impossible to code for despite how pretty it was so that was working against them too (FFXV is still the only actual game that has used the Luminous Engine. KH3 switched to Unreal 4 part way through production. The Agni's Prophecy and Witch Chapter 0 tech demos are the only other things showcasing it still).

 

Also, people hadn't paid for the canceled DLC. There was no pre-order for it or anything. It was a new "season" and none of it is/was part of the original DLC season pass thing. I don't think the Windows version comes with the Ardyn DLC either now that I think about it. Think it was everything up to the Royal Edition (so all the upgrades and new scenes, Comrades, and the 3 DLC episodes from the Season Pass). The story I read was that Luminous Productions wasn't making money and there was a lot of in-fighting and disagreements on where to take the company going on at Square and that was the catalyst for Tabata leaving so they canceled what was left to push the team onto a new title within the studio and probably only released Episode: Ardyn because it was basically already done and they weren't willing to scrap the work already done on it. This is probably also why we're getting a book for the other stuff because all the story planning was already done and they want to save as much from the project as they can.

 

There were so many little things they could have improved with the time to do so. Even just integrating the DLC into the story would have been a great thing to implement but it wasn't meant to be I guess.

 

I'm honestly interested in seeing what Hajime Tabata does next at this point. He took one of the biggest disasters in Final Fantasy history and managed to turn it into a passable experience that he intended to finish any way he could and didn't lose his mind. I feel like he could do something really great with a clean slate.

 

On the other hand, I really still want to see what Nomura's story would have been like too and based on what we saw in KH3, that might still be a thing.

[Shade Aurion 54]

31 minutes ago, Mera'din said:

Also, people hadn't paid for the canceled DLC. There was no pre-order for it or anything. It was a new "season" and none of it is/was part of the original DLC season pass thing. I don't think the Windows version comes with the Ardyn DLC either now that I think about it.

 

Nope!

Main game:

• FINAL FANTASY XV

New Features:

• “Insomnia City Ruins: Expanded Map” – a new map that takes you right up to the end
• First Person Mode
• Armiger Unleashed
• Use of the Royal Cruiser has been unlocked, with new fishing spots and recipes
• Additional quest to acquire and upgrade the Regalia Type-D
• Additional Achievements

DLC:

• FFXV Episode Gladiolus
• FFXV Episode Prompto
• FFXV Episode Ignis
• FFXV MULTIPLAYER EXPANSION: COMRADES
• FFXV Booster Pack+
• FFXV Holiday Pack+

*Moogle Chocobo Carnival tickets are not included in the FFXV Holiday Pack+.

Bonus Items:

• [Weapon] Masamune (FFXV Original Model)
• [Weapon] Mage Mashers (FFIX Model)
• [Weapon] Blazefire Saber XV (FFXV Original Color)
• [Weapon] Gae Bolg (FFXIV Model)
• [Regalia Decal] Platinum Leviathan
• [Regalia Decal] 16-Bit Buddies
• [Regalia Decal] Cindymobile
• [Regalia Decal] Gold Chocobo
• [Outfit] Royal Raiment
• [Item] Travel Pack
• [Item] Camera Kit
• [Item] Angler Set
• [Item] Gourmand Set

I'm actually not surprised Tabata left or that there was a bunch on infighting. The state the game was released in left them with a buggy, half broken mess and already millions of angry people to contend with. Adding to that the usual high expectations of Square management, i'm not surprised he took his toys and went home. I really wish he toughed it out. Or that Nomura stays annoyed at its lack of completion and comes back to it. If Episode Ardyn does well, I wouldn't rule it out. Same from what I hear about those that play KH3 and the FF15 stuff in there.

Still, Luminous Productions are a studio I keep my eye on, same with TokyoRPGFactory in Square. I feel like these guys alongside the Mana Team are likely going to be the future of Square Enix. Its a shame really that they don't make more use of Enix and Taito too. I guess time will tell on everything though and I gueeeess Ardyn's DLC isn't thaaaatTHAT much >_>

I would be a little more butthurt if I didn't now know Comrades is a permanent part of the Windows edition as that kinda makes up for it but it seems kinda shit to just cut the secondary season bass to sell alone off DLC. Like if they're not going to complete the other 3, there is really is no other season..Season passes piss me off anyways. I'd rather them charge $10-15 more and it just be ALL the DLC. Still with Comrades included it would have brought the seasons to 4 DLCs each which is pretty damn good.. or would have been if the last 3 ever got made

Yeah Square with the way they're going are going to be screwed when Nomura leaves or dies. Really they should have up and comers working with and under him as apprentices for the future of the company./ I always preferred his character designs to Amano's. In fact, when I finally get around to Let's Playing 6, I have it modded with 'A World Reborn' which fixes the ugly art, character sprites and a lot more. I considered doing a hybrid Nomura/Amano build but I have since resigned myself. I fucking hate shit shitty androgenous elf designs for even the manliest characters. They're fine for logos but not much else. Probably an unpopular opinion XD
 

[Mera'din 308]

They've had some good people but they apparently must chase them all off. Was really impressed with Tabata's drive and motivation with XV considering he was picking up a shit storm left by another guy and made it not an utter disappointment and then chose to KEEP fixing and working on it after release (and not just paid stuff either a lot of things they added were free) but it sounds like he got forced out with whatever weird shakeup went down at SE. Don't think Nomura would go back to it either. There's almost nothing left of his story in there from everything I had read about what he was doing. Basically just the character designs and names with some scraps of random story otherwise. It's probably part of why the game feels so disjointed and barren in places and overdone in others.

 

A didn't see an excessive amount of bitching though honestly. A good majority seemed if not happy with it, at least satisfied with it vs what they were expecting from all the troubles during development.

 

The whole thing is unfortunate because they definitely seem to not be standing out like they used to both in terms of company image and personnel. Most of the interesting stuff you see out of SE these days is on the western and/or strictly publishing side of things with only a few exceptions. They're also pushing their mobile market a little too hard I think. They have so many damn gacha games I can't keep them all straight anymore. I think there's like 3 or 4 different FF ones alone.

 

As far as Amano goes, I don't mind his work in a concept sense. Actually used to have a huge artbook with a bunch of his FF designs that was really cool (even included stuff for games after Nomura took over primary design duties). Definitely best suited for the logos, but it's cool to see his take on characters he didn't design as well for the contrast if nothing else.

[Shade Aurion 54]

Oh nice! I'll have to pick that up in the near future


@Kyle
Yeah I know what you mean. I do still play Record Keeper and Dissidia Opera Omnia. I deleted Brave Exvia and that other weird 3D one they put on steam (And still don't put Opera Omnia, a far better game on Steam -_- ) I have been meaning to play through Dimensions 1 and 2 but i'll leave that for a blind Let's Play I think. Played Star Ocean for a bit but the rates are garbage and I got shitty and haven't played in ages lol

SE have the most fucked up priorities TBH because even in their mobile division they fail constantly. Before Adventure of Mana was released (ONLY on smart phones and Vita despite being the prequel to the Secret of Mana 3D remake they made) they had Rise of Mana which looked great and I was hyped for, but much like many other games they made, FF: Before Crisis, Chaos Rings 1-3/O and several other games they just let them die and never release them on anything else.

I really hope the FTC rules against all these shitty micro-transations because i'm sick of devs releasing drip feed content trying to screw people out of money. I would rather play a f2p game that had paid DLC packs that contained new content or just pay for the game from the get go. All this penny stealing shit is so annoying and the second its no longer profitable they axe it and the games aren't playable anymore. Its bullshit.

Between the mobile division getting focus and their games division flailing, I think that SE is the next company that needs a huge upset to get things back on track. They own so damn many Enix, Taito, Eidos, etc IPs and do nothing with them. They've just clung to a few series and push them like crazy and still aren't satisfied. I think that first Tomb Raider retcon, which was a great game btw, shipped like 3 million units or something and Square called it a commercial failure. It's nuts.

I just hope whatever bullshit shady Konami-ish corporate influence disappears soon because I want more games that rule. That said, we're getting an FF7 remake with rumors of an FF8 remake, got a Mana remake and a prequel remake with Seiken Densetsu 3 to get a remake in the future. Tomb Raider got a sequel..I want new Xenogears, Chrono Trigger, etc and a god damn Lufia/Soul Blazer collection and Square to stop making Dragon Quest a soft Nintendo exclusive. I mean they remade Dragon Quest 1 - 3 for IOS and Android only? And then remade 4-6 for 3DS only and then only ported them to IOS/Android. Its super shitty considering that Dragon Quest gained traction again after 8 was released on PS2.. 

I dunno man.. I just hope Square sort their shit out. I know so many people that have just given up on them, but I hold hope for the series I love at least. Still, Fromsoft and Bamco are my favourite devs now. Souls and Tales haven't really deviated much and continue to produce better and better games ??

[Revolver 27]

I’m not really sure what SE’s deal is. FFXV was at least half of a good game, same with FFXIII but they just can’t get these games fully polished like they use to.

 

Dragon Quest 11 was great though but I’m guessing that will end when all the old farts who are the leaderships that series pass away.

[Shade Aurion 54]

One can hope. Especially that the additional DQ11 content gets released on other platforms eventually, even if as paid DLC lol

[Mera'din 308]

Showed a new mini-trailer at the FFVII symphony thing that was last night I think. Also got a release date. March 3rd 2020.  

Should get more specific info tonight at Square's conference I would imagine.

 

 

[webhead 519]

 

New stuff.  Still not mention of parts yet but we'll see I guess.  I wish they'd just come out and say it either way.  If they're doing multiple parts, I'm not buying until they're done.

 

Edit: Actually looks like they confirmed it is multiple games now?

https://youtu.be/cq6GmnM98jQ?t=483

[Revolver 27]

Yeah I’m confused about that too. I heard them say it was on two blu-Ray discs but not that it was in two or more parts.

 

I’m so conflicted about this game. Like it looks cool and they’re definitely expanding on the story but I’m worried it’s all going to be mediocre and then be like “why didn’t you just improve the original and not change so much”

[webhead 519]

MT posted this in the chat:

 

Thread goes on a little from there too.  I really hope they're not going to try and sell it back to us as like 4 games or some shit.  Lol.  It'll never be fucking done.  Like, I'm not gonna buy it piecemeal so I'm waiting for them all to be done so I can buy the entire thing for a reasonable price.

[Mera'din 308]

They said during the thing that the first part is JUST the stuff in Midgar but that they have expanded the story and everything there by a large amount and it functions as a full game story on its own I thought?

[webhead 519]

Isn't that like a quarter of the game or something?  I haven't played so I just keep reading what people say.  If they can make this one game does that mean they can make the whole thing more than 2 and that's why they won't just say how many parts there are?  Lol.

[Mera'din 308]

They probably honestly don't know depending on how much they add I guess. I see the rest coming out faster though once they have the main models and all the combat mechanics and everything set, it should speed up the pace a bit. You of all people shouldn't care anyway since you haven't played the first game. If what you're getting is a full game with a full story and you have no functional context for any more story beyond that, but are still complaining, then you're just being difficult.

 

There's definitely some stuff going on in the trailer that was not in the original game, so it looks like they've certainly added to it. If they split this up too much it's going to be kind of dumb though the approach right now seems to be that any splits to it will be where there is a fully functioning story. I can see where that works during the first part of the game, but am not entirely sure how they'll play that out after that point unless they go all out bullshit cliffhanger type episodic stuff. I'm willing to buy a well rounded game/story even if I know it's not the "whole" story. I don't want some Telltale shit though.

 

Really like how the gameplay looks though. Looking forward to that much at least.

[webhead 519]

I'm not complaining per se, I just don't see the point buying these one at a time when in reality the story from the original game won't complete until all the parts are out.  I'll just forget what the fuck happened in the previous games the piecemeal way and also I'll probably save a ton of money getting the collected edition.

 

I don't need it like RIGHT NOW OMG because I haven't played it before so I'm not dying to get my hands on this as much.

[Shade Aurion 54]

17 hours ago, webhead said:

Isn't that like a quarter of the game or something?

 

No. It's not even a 10th of the game. The first disc ended at the Temple of the Ancients after Midgar, Kalm, Junon, Costa del Sol, Corel, The Golden Saucer, Cosmo Canyon, Nibelheim and finally Rocket Town. There were 2 discs after that although the final disc was mainly endgamel, Midgar was still only the first 5-6 hours of a 55-80 hour game. I am pretty wary of Square doing this because if Square make every 5-6 hours of content a separate episode, we're looking at a 10-15 episode game and you know they'll charge out the ass for it. Episodic games are $10-15 per episode here but I think Square will go for $20-30 claiming that each episode is like its own game. Either way, it'll be hundreds of dollars..

I just don't get Square. They act like overworlds are too hard to do yet keep putting them in Dragon Quest games, meanwhile, Level 5 and Bamco have never had a problem putting them in Ni No Kuni or Tales games. Then Square act like they need to retell or flesh out a story and remake everything and they.. don't.. really. I mean throw in some tie in lore to Crisis Core, Advent Children and Dirge of Cerberus and just give the game a visual makeover and everyone would have been happy and it likely would have been finished by now. But no, they'd rather retcon the game and make a completely new game and while on the one hand it's cool that they'd do that, on the other FF7 is a cult hit. If they fuck anything up too badly, half the fan base will lose their shit..

I can already see what will happen. They'll charge people out the ass and ignore criticism while every noob on the planet wows over the graphics with little to no regard to games that came before it.. just like they always do. It's annoying and while I think the remake will probably be awesome, I think this is going to be a brutal milking of a fan-base. Keep some chapstick handy for those nipples! The whole game will cost the same as a console here >_>

[Mera'din 308]

You are severely understating the content in Midgar. It's collected areas equal about half of the other places you listed at least and they can potentially add some of the other sectors, and the story content within it is pretty fucking stacked. I can see it being it's own "story" with everything that happens there. A lot of the rest of it won't fare nearly as well though so they can't cut it up too much. However this plays out, I don't foresee it being more than 4 releases (though I sincerely hope it is less). I'm willing to go through with this first one and see it before I freak out and judge from there, but there is a breaking point in this somewhere and if they manage to hit it, they're going to fuck themselves.

 

Having said that, I will say they are being far too aloof about what the plan is right now though and it's kind of bullshit. "How many 'games' is this going to be?" "We can't tell you because even we don't know lololololol." No. Not cool. How have you not already planned this shit out some time in the past decade you dumb fucks?  I don't care if the first one is so extensive it takes 2 Blu-ray disks and that makes the potential for the rest a bit hazy. Sort your shit out. We don't have long before a new console generation too so logistics if this takes too long is going to be fucking miserable for both sides knowing how Square likes to function anymore.

[webhead 519]

Yeah pretty much.  Saying you don't know and you don't have it planned....you're either completely inept fucking morons or you're lying because you don't want people to get mad you are going to try and string this along for 4 games.

[dr. b 492]

I think they should go for 7 games

[Galeigh 308]

They SHOULD go for ONE game. The greedy fucks.

[webhead 519]

If they're actually adding content, I can understand if it is legitimately a lot of content.  I'd rather it not be more than 2 or 3 though because I just want to play the fucking thing, not an entire series, to get the story of the 1 game.

[dr. b 492]

1 hour ago, Galeigh said:

They SHOULD go for ONE game. The greedy fucks.

 

I still think 7 feels like the right number

[webhead 519]

56 minutes ago, little birdy said:

I still think 7 feels like the right number

 

[Shade Aurion 54]

On 6/14/2019 at 6:36 PM, Mera'din said:

You are severely understating the content in Midgar. It's collected areas equal about half of the other places you listed at least and they can potentially add some of the other sectors, and the story content within it is pretty fucking stacked. I can see it being it's own "story" with everything that happens there. A lot of the rest of it won't fare nearly as well though so they can't cut it up too much. However this plays out, I don't foresee it being more than 4 releases (though I sincerely hope it is less). I'm willing to go through with this first one and see it before I freak out and judge from there, but there is a breaking point in this somewhere and if they manage to hit it, they're going to fuck themselves.

 

Having said that, I will say they are being far too aloof about what the plan is right now though and it's kind of bullshit. "How many 'games' is this going to be?" "We can't tell you because even we don't know lololololol." No. Not cool. How have you not already planned this shit out some time in the past decade you dumb fucks?  I don't care if the first one is so extensive it takes 2 Blu-ray disks and that makes the potential for the rest a bit hazy. Sort your shit out. We don't have long before a new console generation too so logistics if this takes too long is going to be fucking miserable for both sides knowing how Square likes to function anymore.

Pretty sure you're overstating it a bit ? Like yeah, its valid that Midgar is content rich and I agree completely but to claim that Midgar's content is equal to half the other areas in the the first disc.. just, no dude. All the Fort Condor battles, Chocobo Farming/Racing, Midgar Zolem and Mithril Mines, Gongaga and the Turks, Junon sea serpent boss and soldier masquerade, Cargo Ship, Mt Corel Barrett story, Golden Saucer dating and all the minigames and battles within, Corel Prison, Nibelhiem, Nibelhiem mansion, Mount Nibel, Yuffie/Vincent, Cave of the Gi, Wutai.. Thats me glossing over it too. Midgar is specifically two missions with Avalanche, Midgar tunnels, meeting and protecting Aerith at the church, Return to Avalanche HQ, the side quest lead up to Don Corneo, Shinra Tower, the escape and that's it. Sure all the Midgar areas are detailed and meaningful and a lot of the subsequent towns are throw away stops but the areas between them aren't. Midgar is like a quarter of the first disc content-wise. It really is only the first 5-6 hours, it's just more memorable but still prologue. I mean, Corel/Prison, Nibelhiem/Mt Nibel and Junon is just as much content as Midgar really.

I agree with it being bullshit too that Square claim not to know how many entries it'll be. Like seriously, there is no way they haven't sat there with a storyboard and divied it up estimate-wise. They could at least give people a ballpark estimate within two games. Still, I like you will try and be optimistic til after i've played the first episode. It does look better than I thought and I am onboard with them fleshing out the story a bit, just reluctant for it to be a $200 game lol I like that Jesse, Biggs and Wedge are getting attention and all the details of the beginning area. I honestly would love them to do the same to the rest of the game too but i'm just trying to be realistic as to how they're breaking the game up based on them making Midgar the first episode as I really thought it'd go at least til Junon. If Episode 2 is just up until Junon or if Gold Saucer or Nibelhiem is its own episode i'll facepalm hard. I just hope they don't price it too high and don't have a lot of faith that they won't and really.. i'm surprised they didn't release Cris Core HD prior. Like really.. wtf

[Eizan 126]

Well if you look at it from a Speed Run point of view Midgar is the longest section of the run and that's with skipping the 2nd mission with Avalanche. 

 

Nothing else really comes close. Midgar is roughly 1:30 - 2 hours while roughly the rest of the game is 6 hours. 

 

Pretty much Midgar has probably the most story driven wise vs everything else. But you have more stuff you can do outside of Midgar that's not related to the story. 

 

To be honest if the broke it up I'd be okay with 2 sections, but any more than that not really.

[Mera'din 308]

Apparently it takes an "Ethics Department" to tell the FFVII devs that Tifa would probably wear a sports bra?  

 

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2019-06-19-square-enix-has-an-ethics-department-and-it-told-the-final-fantasy-7-remake-developers-to-restrict-tifas-chest

[Shade Aurion 54]

On 6/19/2019 at 11:44 PM, Eizan said:

Well if you look at it from a Speed Run point of view Midgar is the longest section of the run and that's with skipping the 2nd mission with Avalanche. 

 

Nothing else really comes close. Midgar is roughly 1:30 - 2 hours while roughly the rest of the game is 6 hours. 

 

Pretty much Midgar has probably the most story driven wise vs everything else. But you have more stuff you can do outside of Midgar that's not related to the story. 

 

To be honest if the broke it up I'd be okay with 2 sections, but any more than that not really.

I don't know if speed runs are a good yard stick for judging game length dude. In fact, it might be the worst thing to use as many speed runs include glitches, skipping huge parts of the game, game breaking and exploiting bugs ? Even in the best case scenario of none of these examples being used, speed runs rely on skipping anything you're not locked into and that is the main reason midgar would take 2 hours. Long-winded story, back and forth and being unable to leave midgar til after shinra tower. Then you can just ignore most everything and skip through dialog like crazy. Especially in the HD version with triple speed lol

[MT 917]

 

[Eizan 126]

Guys, Mark Hamill is voicing Don Corneo...

 

You know seeing Rude swing and toss Cloud into Aerith was like I want this now. 

[dr. b 492]

Am I the only one who basically has zero interest in this remake..?

 

I do kinda want to replay the original eventually though. 

[Vic Boss 612]

I don't want to touch it because the full thing is gonna end up either never being made or only being finished on the PS6's launch

[dr. b 492]

Sounds about right

[Mera'din 308]

It's okay. I'll touch it enough for both of you. 

[Revolver 27]

My initial reaction to this was not great. I think ideally I would have loved to see the original really just given a ton of polish. This is a completely new game. That kind of spits in the face of one of the greatest games of all time. The hubris in that makes me worry about an oncoming crash and burn.

 

All that being said I did like FF15. I prefer older school ATB stuff but the gameplay in 15 was pretty fun. The story was where things went wrong. But that is already supplied for them in this case. I’m being cautiously hopeful until it comes out.

[Eizan 126]

On 9/13/2019 at 3:22 PM, Mera'din said:

It's okay. I'll touch it enough for both of you. 

After watching the Aps Boss fight, I think me and you can cover enough excitement for this game.

[Mera'din 308]

FFVII Remake has been delayed to April 10th. Reason given was the general "we want a little extra time to put as much polish on this as we can" type of thing. This is putting it dangerously close to the release of Cyberpunk 2066. Early March had been the perfect slot for it honestly, now almost all games I want in the first half of the year are coming out within a few weeks of each other.  

 

Here's the their full message:

“We know that so many of you are looking forward to the release of FINAL FANTASY VII REMAKE and have been waiting patiently to experience what we have been working on. In order to ensure we deliver a game that is in-line with our vision, and the quality that our fans who have been waiting for deserve, we have decided to move the release date to April 10, 2020.

 

We are making this tough decision in order to give ourselves a few extra weeks to apply final polish to the game and to deliver you with the best possible experience. I, on behalf of the whole team, want to apologize to everyone, as I know this means waiting for the game just a little bit longer.

Thank you for your patience and continued support”
 

Yoshinori Kitase, Producer of FINAL FANTASY VII REMAKE.