[Final Fantasy General]

[MT 918]

  On 1/15/2020 at 6:03 AM, Mera'din said:

Cyberpunk 2066. 

I didn't know they were making a prequel to 2077 too!

[Mera'din 308]

Damnit. Not even sure how I put the wrong number. >_>

[dr. b 492]

What is the over/under on how many more delays there will be?

[Galeigh 308]

Wasn't it being episodic supposed to prevent delays?

[webhead 519]

Hey @Mera'din they're delaying cyberpunk too so you're gtg

[Mera'din 308]

Yep. Like I said in the other topic, I got some breathing room now. Just need Bloodlines 2 to announce a solid release date nowhere near Cyberpunk and I should be good to go. XD

[Mera'din 308]

New trailer. There is definitely a lot more going on than in the original game. Looks like they moved up some flashback stuff too. This trailer also features all of the Shinra heads and shows that the Honeybee Inn IS in fact still in the game. I can't wait. XD

 

 

[Vic Boss 612]

I was listening to Kinda Funny's non-spoiler review of FF7 Remake and there seemed to be total agreement between the FF7 diehard fanboys and the "never played/never could get into OG FF7" crowd that the game's amazing, think I might actually hop on this hype train for once (but in like two weeks when I'm done MGSV, and this assumes I can find a physical version at all ). Only ever played 7 once, and stopped just before the final dungeon and never really went back to it.

[Mera'din 308]

From what I've read, even a physical copy is going to be an hours worth of installing shit off the disk. Get your harddrive ready. XD

[Vic Boss 612]

I'd rather a 100 gig install than a 100 gig download when my monthly data cap is 200 gigs

 

I'll definitely have to delete a few things to make room for it.

 

Two other things I heard about the game:

 

1) Apparently this somehow feels like a complete game with a beginning, middle and end and it's not some kind of "To Be Continued" cliffhanger. I was gonna hold off because I assumed it was TBC and that the final two games wouldn't even be available on PS4, but that makes it more palatable to me to give it a shot.

 

2) This is a mega-dega spoiler if true

 

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Back out now

 
 

 

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Last warning

 
 

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I'm not longer responsible for this

 
 

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Apparently the game is taking a cue from

 
 

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Mortal Kombat 9 in that time travel is being used to alter the events of the original game and presumably the original ending (I had a friend who spoiled that for me, didn't a meteor blow everyone up?)
 

 

 

 

 

[webhead 519]

I still want to wait for all of them to release.  Also maybe at some point they'll decide to put this on PC.  I'm not going to get this for PS4 and have to get it again like I did for the fucking Kingdom Hearts collections when the PS5 ones come out.

[Mera'din 308]

Game is fantastic so far. They DEFINITELY added a lot of shit onto the original stuff. I'm like 11 hours in and JUST got to Reactor 5. They really fleshed out some of the side characters too, Jessie especially. Some interesting new characters and story elements too and I'm looking forward to seeing how everything plays out. The level design is visually excellent too. Lots of little details and interesting things to look at throughout the areas I've seen. Though the layout is pretty "hallway" like a lot of the time (not faulting it for that since it was pretty much the same in the original while in Midgar), it's laid out organically enough that it doesn't feel stilted and awkward like FFXIII did.

 

Combat gets a bit chaotic sometimes, and it can be hard to follow and properly dodge/block stuff a lot of the time. Each character feels unique to play as though, and switching between them feels rewarding in the right situations. As crazy as some fights can get though it at least isn't visually vomiting glow effects all over your screen every 2 seconds like KH3 tended to do. >_>

 

Really impressed with the other game systems though. Materia works almost exactly like it did in the original, with some specific modifications where needed due to the altered gameplay (only 1 summon materia per character for example, and you can't just use them whenever you feel like it). They put a weapon upgrade system into as well so you're not relying on hunting down a new weapon to increase your damage and other stats. Each level you get unlocks SP for the weapon and you use that to unlock stat nodes on the weapon itself (not unlike a super simplified FFX-style sphere grid type of thing). Any weapons you acquire are have the same SP unlocked as what you currently have. Each weapon also has an ability tied to it that after extended use becomes permanent on your character regardless of weapon.

 

Only other real complaint is I'm not a huge fan of some of the new voice actors. MOST of them are similar enough to the ones they've always used before that it's mostly negligible, but there's a couple that are just different enough to rub me the wrong way. Also not a fan of how Square handled this part of it either. From what I've read previously, most of the old VA's were completely blown off when it came to this (David Hayder style). Like most of the main characters literally didn't know they wouldn't be doing voices in the game until the first trailer came out that had the characters speaking and it wasn't them. I get it for a few who came off as pretty wooden most the time, but there are a couple that I'm really disappointed they don't have for it. Though I haven't seen the Turks in the game yet, I'm of the opinion that not using Quinton Flynn and Cripsin Freeman for Reno and Rude is downright stupid. Out of who I've actually heard so far though, I'm upset about George Newbern. Got really used to Sephiroth sounding like evil Superman over the last 15 years. XD

[dr. b 492]

All this time I've been expecting this remake to be bad, so it's nice to see the positive reactions I guess. I'm not gonna buy a PS4 to play it because that's way too much $$$... is it a timed exclusive on PS4?

[Psycho666Soldier 287]

  On 4/12/2020 at 11:17 AM, Mera'din said:

Game is fantastic so far. They DEFINITELY added a lot of shit onto the original stuff. I'm like 11 hours in and JUST got to Reactor 5. They really fleshed out some of the side characters too, Jessie especially. Some interesting new characters and story elements too and I'm looking forward to seeing how everything plays out. The level design is visually excellent too. Lots of little details and interesting things to look at throughout the areas I've seen. Though the layout is pretty "hallway" like a lot of the time (not faulting it for that since it was pretty much the same in the original while in Midgar), it's laid out organically enough that it doesn't feel stilted and awkward like FFXIII did.

 

Combat gets a bit chaotic sometimes, and it can be hard to follow and properly dodge/block stuff a lot of the time. Each character feels unique to play as though, and switching between them feels rewarding in the right situations. As crazy as some fights can get though it at least isn't visually vomiting glow effects all over your screen every 2 seconds like KH3 tended to do. >_>

 

Really impressed with the other game systems though. Materia works almost exactly like it did in the original, with some specific modifications where needed due to the altered gameplay (only 1 summon materia per character for example, and you can't just use them whenever you feel like it). They put a weapon upgrade system into as well so you're not relying on hunting down a new weapon to increase your damage and other stats. Each level you get unlocks SP for the weapon and you use that to unlock stat nodes on the weapon itself (not unlike a super simplified FFX-style sphere grid type of thing). Any weapons you acquire are have the same SP unlocked as what you currently have. Each weapon also has an ability tied to it that after extended use becomes permanent on your character regardless of weapon.

 

Only other real complaint is I'm not a huge fan of some of the new voice actors. MOST of them are similar enough to the ones they've always used before that it's mostly negligible, but there's a couple that are just different enough to rub me the wrong way. Also not a fan of how Square handled this part of it either. From what I've read previously, most of the old VA's were completely blown off when it came to this (David Hayder style). Like most of the main characters literally didn't know they wouldn't be doing voices in the game until the first trailer came out that had the characters speaking and it wasn't them. I get it for a few who came off as pretty wooden most the time, but there are a couple that I'm really disappointed they don't have for it. Though I haven't seen the Turks in the game yet, I'm of the opinion that not using Quinton Flynn and Cripsin Freeman for Reno and Rude is downright stupid. Out of who I've actually heard so far though, I'm upset about George Newbern. Got really used to Sephiroth sounding like evil Superman over the last 15 years. XD

I've got to Reno and Rude, and they're not awful.  Rude's the least noticeable.  Other than Sephiroth, I haven't really been bothered by any voice changes.  While it's not the old actor, I feel like the dude doing Barrett is perfect.  Cloud sounds close enough to the original, and again, no one else has really bothered me.

 

Other than that, I pretty much agree with everything here.  Reactor 5's design gave me a little bit of XV vibes as rooms are kinda recycled, but it feels pretty negligible in the grand scheme.

 

I think one of the things I like most is for the most part, no story point, small scenario quirk, or notable bits of dialogue have been culled.  Like just when I'm thinking, "Aww, they must have retconned this out," it comes around and makes sense.  I've only found one thing of that nature that's bothered me so far in the Sector 5 Slums, but I get why they did it.  Spoilered just in case:

 

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It's just the "This guy are sick" moment.  Rather than having a small pipe room where a sick man has been staying, he pops up in a similar area, but he's someone who randomly shows up, not someone that has been living there and assuming Aerith has been trying to take care of him.  I'm guessing they kind of blended that aspect with the dude in the apartment next to yours in Sector 7.

 

Ditto on all the small details, by the way.  The first night, I found myself just taking extra time to read all the flyers and take in the surroundings.  I was floored when it hit me that I could move the camera up and actually see the plate.  I also love the conversations from NPCs.  I feel like it does a much better job at painting a picture of life in the slums, and how Avalanche's actions are affecting the townspeople.

 

I just got to the Wall Market last night.  Getting ready to dive back in.

[Mera'din 308]

  On 4/12/2020 at 1:41 PM, little birdy said:

All this time I've been expecting this remake to be bad, so it's nice to see the positive reactions I guess. I'm not gonna buy a PS4 to play it because that's way too much $$$... is it a timed exclusive on PS4?

 

I believe it's a one year exclusive on Playstation and then it will come out on Xbox. There have also been insinuations of a PC port but nothing specific has been said.

 

  On 4/12/2020 at 4:01 PM, Psycho666Soldier said:

 

Ditto on all the small details, by the way.  The first night, I found myself just taking extra time to read all the flyers and take in the surroundings.  I was floored when it hit me that I could move the camera up and actually see the plate.  I also love the conversations from NPCs.  I feel like it does a much better job at painting a picture of life in the slums, and how Avalanche's actions are affecting the townspeople.

 

Completely forgot to mention the NPC conversations. I'm constantly stopping to listen to them, and they change regularly as you progress through the story. Of particular note to me was the random people you would run into in the slums that were from the plate but stuck down there because of what you did. Especially the Shinra employees. Does an excellent job of showing both sides of the conflict from the "little guy" perspective. Also liked how much more emphasis they put on the fact that Barret's AVALANCE cell wasn't the only on and was actually kicked out of the main organization. If I remember correctly, they only kind of insinuate that in the original (the separate cell part anyway, not sure if they use the rest) and it gets glossed over pretty heavily though they may have elaborated on it in some of the compilation stuff that I'm forgetting.

[dr. b 492]

  On 4/12/2020 at 7:22 PM, Mera'din said:

 

I believe it's a one year exclusive on Playstation and then it will come out on Xbox. There have also been insinuations of a PC port but nothing specific has been said.

 

The odds of me playing this remake continue to shrink Oh well, I could grab the Switch port off the eShop any time if I really want to revisit FF7.

[Mera'din 308]

So I knew that they had replaced all the VAs, but hadn't actually looked at WHO was doing the voices. As such, Sephiroth is STILL voiced by someone known for playing Superman.

 

Specifically, it's Tyler Hoechlin who plays Superman in Supergirl and the other DC TV shows on CW.

[Psycho666Soldier 287]

How far have you gotten now?  I've probably put wayyy to much time into this and now I'm at like Chapter 14, prepping for the raid on Shinra HQ.

[Mera'din 308]

Ch. 8 with around 16 hours of play time. Specifically I'm in the Sector 5 slums doing side quests at the moment.

[Vic Boss 612]

Welp, looks like I can't get a physical version ASAP so I'mma just leave it until price drops later.

[Mera'din 308]

Yeah, there were weirdly few copies of it or something because the day after I got mine I was looking into something and was on Amazon and the only availability on it was from 3rd party sellers who had super inflated the price.

[Psycho666Soldier 287]

Apparently Walmart was selling it for like $40 bucks in my town.  Since I pre-ordered through the PSN, I paid full price.  Worth it to play it at 11pm the day before though.

 

I think I'm finally in the last chapter.  I think.  I keep thinking I'm at the end, and then more content pops up.

 

I'll talk details when I'm finished, but I'm thinking Wall Market will be the biggest departure in opinions as far as how well it follows the original.  Unlike everything before where order of events is just kind of delayed, a lot of the events in Wall Market are just handled quite differently.  I still enjoyed it, though it also has hands-down the worst representation of the soundtrack:

 

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They opted for what I'm sure is a completely new tune that sounds like something you'd hear in Las Vegas, with no hint of the original Wall Market theme.  Which is disappointed as it's teased right before you get to Wall Market in a subpar version that I thought worked well for the battle scene it was attached to.  But knowing that's the only version of one of my favorite tunes from the original, it stings hearing what they did with the new theme.

 

[Vic Boss 612]

  On 4/16/2020 at 8:20 PM, Mera'din said:

Yeah, there were weirdly few copies of it or something because the day after I got mine I was looking into something and was on Amazon and the only availability on it was from 3rd party sellers who had super inflated the price.

 

Wal-Mart here was doing online-order only (just found out today via a sign posted in their video game section), a few other local places I checked out online were pretty much doing the same. Also same with Amazon, sold out from them and the only new ones were inflated prices.

 

Any online delivery to here estimates that it'll be here near the end of the month at the earliest, which is way after the hype's died down, so if I'm already waiting I'm just gonna wait for price drops

[Mera'din 308]

I just hit Wall Market last night. Definitely noticed some differences, but they did a good job with it so far. There's enough familiarity in NPCs and events that I'm really happy with it. I like the new characters they added, and the increased presence of Johnny is actually kind of fun. The thing I found most impressive is the fact that I actually KNEW who some of the NPCs were supposed to be when I saw them. Things like the dress maker and his son, and the "mohawk punk" style npc they had that they used for the arena announcers were all specific styles of NPCs I remember from the original and I was impressed at how much effort they put into keeping them familiar to their original designs. 

 

As for soundtrack, I haven't minded the Wall Market music as much as some things. The redone music is a fairly mixed bag so far. Some of it is solid and holds to the original, and some of it just feels off. I honestly hate most of the "special" verisions of songs you get as collectibles in the game though. That jazz rendition of the Cosmo Canyon theme made me cringe. I sincerely hope they do a more traditional one when they get to that point in the story because that did not fit the feel of that place even a little.

 

Beyond some of the music, the only real complaint I have so far is how restrictive they made some of the exploration. It's constantly redirecting you away from places it doesn't want you to explore, and not nearly as much stuff can be interacted with as I would have hoped considering the original. All the details are there, but none of the added touch. A recent example I can think of is finding the giant 'AVALANCHE' spraypainted across the wall in that secluded area and it was cool to see it but I would have expected some kind of interactivity or comment about it but there was nothing. Also, in Wall Market itself I remember being to do a lot of the 'leg work' for the dress stuff before even going to Corneo's place and you can't even pretend to find anything before hand now which was a little disappointing. At least the ability to interact with the vending machine in the inn and stuff to acknowledge that it has a purpose if nothing else.

 

At least the one item machine still tries to shoot you when you mess with it so that was nice.  

 

Edit: Near the end of the Train Graveyard now. Overall feelings on Wall Market are mixed. They did some amazing things with that area, but I feel like some of it was almost... over indulgent and superfluous. I'm a bit disappointed with some of the things they took out/changed, but it's balanced pretty evenly with how much I enjoyed it regardless. It made for an enjoyable experience ultimately so I can't really fault them. Train Graveyard has been excellent though. Had a really well done creepy vibe that feels like what they probably WANTED to pull off with Ch. 13 of FFXV.

[Psycho666Soldier 287]

Holy shit, I just beat it.  One hell of a final stretch with the final battle.  Also, where the plot goes seems very telling of the future of the series.  Will divulge more later, but will say that ultimately, I still loved it and had a blast playing, any gripes aside.

 

[Psycho666Soldier 287]

I'm just going to say right now that all around, this game was fantastic.  If I want to get nitpicky, which I certainly did at points in the game, I could pull out some flaws that bothered me which I'll cover here.  Almost all of these are down things to do with the music or plot changes.  But overall, I could understand or appreciate most of the changes because it facilitates the my main judgment of this game: it pays massive homage and respect to the original while forging its own path that is satisfying on its own.

 

Atmosphere/Aesthetic: One of the things this game just nailed perfectly is the atmosphere.  Despite the incredible graphics that are far beyond anything seen in the Final Fantasy games, let alone VII, it doesn't sacrifice the aesthetic of the original.  Color palettes, distinct, at time blocky shapes, familiar landmarks just rush you with nostalgia in a way that makes you feel like you've been transported into the FFVII world, seeing what it would look like if it was your real life.  It's basically like seeing a polished version of the original's concept art and the cutscenes.  So many times throughout, I found myself just taking the time to soak in the environment and fawn over every little detail.  I said it before, but there is nothing like being able to just look up at the oppressive plate towering above you.  This is enhanced by details like being able to see the materia slotted into your weapon, and even reflecting the linked slots and specific placement.  There's also a remarkably accurate re-mapping of the locales.  Knowing things would be different by nature of expanding, I felt the geographic layout of everything mostly mirrored the maps of the original.

 

Let's also not forget the many conversations of the basic civilians and deeper exploration of the impact on the common person in Midgar that shine a whole new light on the actions of the original.

 

Music: The music was handled 90% wonderfully.  Unlike Mera'din, I loved most of the new arrangements for the classic pieces.  It probably helps that I've been getting into the idea of leitmotifs lately, but this is something the Final Fantasy series and many video games have been doing for years.  They take a basic theme, melody, or rhythmic idea, and contextualize it differently through new instrumentation, style, or key, to convey the connection to a character or overarching theme while reflecting how it's significant in different scenarios.  Aerith's theme and the FFVII theme were some wonderful example of this use.  The key thing for me is that I think what makes these new arrangements acceptable is the fact that for every new variation, the game mostly pairs that with a version identical to the original with modern sound technology.  For example, the Mako Reactor theme.  I felt this was one of the stronger arrangements in the whole game, and coupling that with a battle edit version felt like such an immersive new way to explore a classic.  Whenever all the teases of Sephiroth or JENOVA's theme kept getting spliced increasingly throughout the game, it sent chills down my spine.  And for what it's worth, I liked all the brand new pieces that were included, and ultimately and happy they weren't afraid to bring in new musical elements.

 

I also actually really enjoyed the contemporary remixes you heard through the music discs.  While not all of them were perfect, considering most of these themes were based on tracks that aren't normally in this portion of the story, I think it was a nice way to squeak in a bit of nostalgia while having fun.  When I heard the jazz blues version of Barret's theme the first time, I was just smiling from ear to ear hearing how they transformed it.

 

That said, the other side to all this is there are some themes that never get a proper arrangement that sounds right, and that bothered me.  The Turks theme is an example, as without the snaps and minimalist percussion with heavy bass hits, it just felt flat and non-descript.   But the most egregious example is the fucking Wall Market theme, or "Oppressed People"  There's a more faithful version that plays for a minute before it transitions into the weird, dub-style battle edit version that permeates the Sector 6 area.  This hits for me because this was one of my favorite themes from the original.  To be saddled with one of the most bleh remixes as an alternative and spend the entire Wall Market experience listening to "A Whole New World ~Vegas Remix~" while going through one of the most retconned stages of the whole game - it's just salt in the wound.  That's not to say I don't like the new Wall Market aesthetic and really pushing the idea of it as a tourist attraction, but it definitely loses some of its seediness by virtue of the new theme.

 

While that did sour me a little, the overall aural experience was a treat, and some of the new tracks, like Avalanche's theme, found a way into my heart.

 

Gameplay:  This is the cream of the crop, here.  The one saving grace that will always override any other complaint about this game.  They really nailed this.  I know mostly everyone was skeptical about the new battle system.  I was included in those that were supremely bummed there would be no traditional turn-based system.  But what they created not only perfects the Action RPG style they've geared towards the last few iterations, it incorporates the ATB system in a unique and meaningful way.  While you can mostly get away with a hack-and-slash mentality early on, the game starts pushing you into a corner to think more strategically by the time you get to Reactor 5.  It's basically turn-based in the sense that your most effective actions come from the ATB-dependent abilities, but you have to control the battle in the meantime with your basic attack and defense.  This becomes even more poignant once you have a full party.  Certain enemies are handled better with Barret, whereas Tifa is great for staggering enemies and building up quick ATB slots to support the party.  It starts becoming a matter of swapping between characters to build them up to an ATB gauge, and choosing how you want them to interact or approach the enemy from different angles.  And by the end of the game, I found myself wanting to play as all characters pretty equally, with a huge bias for Tifa.

 

The challenge is high in this game.  I played on Normal difficulty, and while I only died maybe two times, achieving victory was a cathartic sigh of relief for every boss, and even some of the random battles.  It is easy to stock up on items, and the game's generosity in healing your party after big moments makes it rarely feel like the, "Need to get to a save point and use my tent" vibe, which is probably a good thing for some.  But that said, it only really helps in between each battle when your massive stockpile of potions are locked behind an ATB bar.  It keeps you on your toes, and makes you have to think like a JRPG in an action setting: I found myself making great use of spells like Haste and Regen much like I would in the original.

 

And the optional quests are a blast.  While some of the NPCs are unimpressive, and there's sort of a formula of "Go to this area for a quest, then come later for an stronger monster," it never feels recycled or too fetch-quest like.  Part of that is the way the characters interact and each sidequest having some kind of plot attached to it that's fully acted.  The other is that they don't load you with so many sidequests that they have to repeat their selves.  They don't wear out their welcome, and some of the rewards are pretty satisfying.  Peppering these with some great mini-games that are both new and nostalgic both keeps the game feeling fresh and caters to the spirit of the original.

 

Story:  I'm kinda lumping both plot elements and the handling of locations here, but I think this is easily the most divisive aspect of the game.  The ending is going to piss a lot of people off, and my opinion can drastically change depending on how they handle the sequels. But before I get to the ending…

 

What the game does well for most of the story is that it fills in the blanks between the major plot points of the original.  Up until Wall Market, it mostly stays this course.  Small moments and aspects of dialogue remain, without being placed out of order for the most part.  Meanwhile, the new content serves both as an excuse to get 40+ hours out of Midgar and, more importantly, to characterize everyone better.  We get more of the socially awkward Cloud that belies his Ex-SOLDIER badass exterior.  We feel more of Barrett's passion for the planet, and Tifa's desire to get to know and understand Cloud more than they did as kids.  And of course, we get much more attachment and sympathy for the members of Avalanche.  Knowing what comes next, some of the moments between Cloud and Jessie can be so heartbreakingly bittersweet.  Spoilers, particularly those who haven't played the original:

 

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The entire chapter surrounding the dropping of the plate was heart-wrenching.  Not only did you spend much more time with Avalanche to feel more hurt by the loss of those characters, but you also got more time to be in the slums.  Seeing the people making the most of their situation and dealing with the ramifications of the Shinra/Avalanche made you feel more urgency, especially when they covered aspects like the evacuation effort.  Everything following this was some masterful storytelling and acting that really brought the characters to life.

 

However, upon arriving at Wall Market, the story starts making some notable departures, and the gap only grows wider through the rest of the game.  I want to say upfront that I'm ultimately thrilled with what they did with Wall Market, and all musical complaints are rectified upon entering Corneo's mansion.   Now I'll have to get in to specifics, so the following are both spoilers on the original and the new game:

 

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I generally get why they did it, but I'm a bit torn on the change of how Cloud ends up cross-dressing.  In the original, it's pretty much the whole point of being at Wall Market.  Here, they keep all the sidequests and mini-games, but they have no bearing on Cloud dressing up.  On top of that, it's almost kind of shoehorned in just before entering Corneo's mansion.  This ends up making the sidequests feel more pointless, and while I took the Johnny path and enjoyed it for what it was, it completely changed the vibe of the activities.  It also had me increasingly worried that they were going to skip over Cloud getting in a dress and retcon one of the most memorable moments of the whole game.

 

Those complaints aside, I did enjoy the new characters and getting a feel for the community and the underbelly if Wall Market, all while building the intrigue of Don Corneo so much more, who they fucking nailed.

 

Past that, both the journey to Shinra HQ and the events occuring in it are drastically changed, and this is where I'll get into the nitpicky.  The former was actually a pretty good retelling, and I liked the asserted idea that this whole time you were climbing over Sector 7 wreckage.  I'm pretty sure the original never says this, but it definitely added a new element to the journey.  But with the actual Shinra HQ, changes like Domino being an inside man for Avalanche felt a bit convenient, and him telling you where to go to spy on the meeting takes away some of the exploring element.  And while I get why they changed everything surrounding the order of events for Hojo and Shinra's murder, it kind of sapped a lot of the mystery out of the section where you're mysteriously broken out of your jail cells and you're following a trail of blood.  And it's kind of dumb, but I'm bothered that Red XIII isn't introduced via Hojo trying to mate him with Aerith.

 

For the sake of this game, though, I do like the retcon of Shinra's death.  I remember being a bit disappointed and shocked that the presumed main villain was killed off before ever really doing anything.  Barret deserved his moment to tell him off, and the character definitely earned a more climactic ending.

 

The Ending: Speculation and potential concerns aside, this ending was a wild fucking ride.  I'm including pretty much the entirety of the final chapter, because it's non-stop throughout.  The final clash is on an incredibly epic scale, and it definitely has shades of the Bizarro Sephiroth fight(no, it's not Bizarro Sephiroth).  This is all spliced with some wonderful character work, voice-acting, and musical cues and swells that just bring the whole package together.  Enough so that I think it makes for a highly satisfying conclusion for both the new and old fans, even if the old fans aren't a fan of the proposed direction they're taking.

 

MAJOR SPOILERS FOR BOTH GAMES AHEAD:

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Clearly, the plot devices they're using here are a means to make an excuse to take the game in whatever direction they feel like without having to stay close to the original.  And naturally, that's a bit scary.  What's beautiful about it is it's about fighting against fate to make the future you want to see, and well...many people always wanted to find that secret that let you revive Aerith.  The concept that Aerith, Cloud, Sephiroth, and occasionally everyone else can see glimpses into the intended future, one that the Whispers seek to keep intact - is very bold, and I think makes for some intriguing story hooks to keep old fans on their toes going forward.

 

Naturally, this implies that there's a chance Aerith won't die, and that the rest of the games may share very little with the original when it comes to even basic plot points.  But I think this game has proven otherwise in some cases.  I believe that while the order and details of events may be changed, the idea here is that certain events are unavoidable.  When you think about it, the game begins diverging when Sephiroth makes an early appearance to start fucking with Cloud's head.  From here, the game starts slowly inserting other changes, to the point that the Shinra HQ portion is a majority different.  This leads to moments like the party confronting President Shinra before he dies.  And there's the kicker: President Shinra still dies, despite the drastically different circumstances surrounding it.  Red XIII still joins the party.  The crew still make an escape from Midgar and set out on a journey to stop Sephiroth.

 

And I think in the end, Aerith still dies.  Maybe it's delayed.  Maybe it happens different.  But it'll still happen.  And probably catch us more off-guard and hit us even harder than before.

 

Some people think it's a time travel thing, and I think it's more a matter of embracing the multiverse theory by letting people see visions of the future.  I don't think Sephiroth or Aerith are from the original timeline trying to do things different.  I think Sephiroth is so tapped into the lifestream that he's able to see the future rather clearly and is trying to change it to reach a future where he succeeds.  He's gaining power to rival the arbiters of fate, which is why he's able to take Cloud to places like the Edge of Creation.  Aerith, being Cetra, also has a strong tie to the Lifestream, so it makes sense that she knows so much, too.

 

Ultimately, I think a lot of main story elements will still remain intact, as they've already been set-up in this installment, but we'll see new characters and have some of the plot arcs completely changed around one major event.  Like maybe you don't march in a parade at Junon, but you're still trying to sneak on a boat to get to another continent (though, that's a bad example because I don't want them to cut that).

 

Overall, I'll withhold an official opinion on the future of the series until I see it play out.  But on its own, the Final Fantasy VII Remake was damn near a masterpiece.  It had me deep deep deeeeeeep in the feels with all sorts of nostalgia and appreciation for the new context.  The battle system was incredibly handled and loads of fun to experiment with.  The music was superb.  And regardless of complaints about differences, the story was told so well and incredibly compelling, with some of the best character work I've had the pleasure to experience in a video game.  Whether as an old fan or someone new to it, I highly recommend this, and can't wait to start digging into the replay content just so I can experience it all over again.

[Galeigh 308]

Question: are they still releasing it in parts or is the whole game out?

[Psycho666Soldier 287]

  On 4/19/2020 at 10:39 PM, Galeigh said:

Question: are they still releasing it in parts or is the whole game out?

It's going to be in parts.  This game is a complete game on its own with the amount of content and the way they handled the ending, but there is absolutely more on the way.  How many?  I don't know.

[Galeigh 308]

I'll wait then.

[Vic Boss 612]

Been playing OG FF7 while waiting for Remake to ship. There's a lot of Mario RPG in this that I didn't notice the first time I played it (some sound effects and kinda the background art style).

 

I was just under 7 hours into the game and left Midgar... is this seriously where FF7 Remake ends? How many games are they planning this to be?

[Psycho666Soldier 287]

  On 4/26/2020 at 10:48 AM, Vic Boss said:

Been playing OG FF7 while waiting for Remake to ship. There's a lot of Mario RPG in this that I didn't notice the first time I played it (some sound effects and kinda the background art style).

 

I was just under 7 hours into the game and left Midgar... is this seriously where FF7 Remake ends? How many games are they planning this to be?

I can see where they manage to squeeze the rest of the game into two releases.  But it seems nigh impossible to fill everything into the second game without completely retconning the story.

[Vic Boss 612]

WHOA

I forgot this plot twist from OG FF7

 

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"The original Sephiroth died 5 years ago"

[Psycho666Soldier 287]

  On 4/29/2020 at 2:25 PM, Vic Boss said:

WHOA

I forgot this plot twist from OG FF7

 

 

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"The original Sephiroth died 5 years ago"
 

 

 

That's such a nice thing to forget.  It's one of those things that makes for such a good twist, and kinda flips the story on its head.

 

So you're about on Disc 3 now?

[Vic Boss 612]

Partway through Disc 2

[Psycho666Soldier 287]

Looking forward to hearing your pros and cons when you're finished.  Despite recognizing any flaws, I'm too jaded when it comes to this game.  First JRPG after being introduced through Super Mario RPG, so it'll always be drenched in nostalgia.

[Mera'din 308]

I think once I finish up with Remake I'm going to do another run through the original. There is so much nostalgia fuel in it that I'm having  flashbacks to the original constantly and trying to remember exactly how the story went. I bought it on PS4 a while back but never got around to it so this will be a good opportunity. Think I'll be done with Remake soon-ish if I ever get some time to play (been working a lot) and then plan to do a Hard run through but I look forward to playing the original again when I'm done.

[Vic Boss 612]

Just finished OG 7 on PSP (the 100% run is going to be saved for the PS4 Port), Remake comin in the mail (estimated arrival was between yesterday and next monday), gonna watch Advent Children with Chaoxytal tonight and have Crisis Core ready on the PSP whenever there's time for it

[Psycho666Soldier 287]

  On 4/30/2020 at 12:21 PM, Mera'din said:

I think once I finish up with Remake I'm going to do another run through the original. There is so much nostalgia fuel in it that I'm having  flashbacks to the original constantly and trying to remember exactly how the story went. I bought it on PS4 a while back but never got around to it so this will be a good opportunity. Think I'll be done with Remake soon-ish if I ever get some time to play (been working a lot) and then plan to do a Hard run through but I look forward to playing the original again when I'm done.

I have a physical copy I play on my PS3, and I already popped it on and checked out a few different saves.  Problem is I've bitch-slapped that game up and down so many times that I don't know if I want to spend the time going through it again or spend that time elsewhere.  I'll eventually come back to Hard Mode on the Remake, but I wanted to have something to come back to rather than burning out and getting completely sucked in all over again.

 

I was trying to look up unique challenges, and there was one I found where you play each character as a forced class AKA they can only use certain materia and commands.

 

  On 4/30/2020 at 12:38 PM, Vic Boss said:

Just finished OG 7 on PSP (the 100% run is going to be saved for the PS4 Port), Remake comin in the mail (estimated arrival was between yesterday and next monday), gonna watch Advent Children with Chaoxytal tonight and have Crisis Core ready on the PSP whenever there's time for it

I have also seen Advent Children far too many times.  Back in my acid days, it was the go-to movie for me and one of my best friends.  Is it the original version, or the Director's Cut?

 

Also, I still haven't played Crisis Core, and this game was making me think I need to do that at some point.  But I may just try to find a YouTube video that splices all the story together.

[Mera'din 308]

FF7 is probably the game I've replayed the most (never go over 2 or 3 with anything usually but have played through FF7 a good 6+ times at least), but it's been a solid 15 years at this point since I have so I think I'm good for replay finally. XD

 

As for the rest of the FFVII stuff, I love me some Advent Children though it's actually starting to look dated now compared to Remake (seeing Barrett especially). Crisis Core was a pretty solid game. I actually still have it on the PSP (though I'm not 100% sure my PSP actually still work. >_> ). Dirge of Cerberus was interesting enough, but it got pretty awkward at times (gameplay was pretty mediocre overall). We never did get any kind of port of Before Crisis though. That seems like it was mostly AVALANCHE faffing about vs Shinra/The Turks though from what I recall. May have been an influence for some of the new story stuff in Remake honestly. Really surprised they didn't bother rerelease/remaster CC and DC though by this point.

[Psycho666Soldier 287]

I really wanted to like Dirge of Cerberus because I'm such a mark for Vincent.  Back when I used to RP a lot, I'd use him as an avatar.  Or even played him in some AOL Final Fantasy RP chat rooms.

 

But you said it: it's just mediocre.  The story stuff was cool, and I was happy Yuffie and Reeve had a spotlight in it.  But the gameplay just wore thin so quickly.  

[Vic Boss 612]

Just got to the train in Chapter 2 of FF7 Remake

 

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- GRAPHICS

- WHOA EARLY SEPHIROTH + "Lol remember when you killed me?"

- Remember when this game was released as Final Fantasy XIII and everyone hated it?

- Acks this seems like FF and what I've heard Kingdom Hearts is kinda like

- Takes like 3 years to manually save
 

- I didn't realize Jessie was female, nevermind a waifu ?

 

[Psycho666Soldier 287]

You didn't know Jessie was a girl?!

[Mera'din 308]

So, I finished it. They definitely dropped some Kingdom Hearts into this shit. Jesus.  

 

Not that I didn't enjoy every second of it, but the end just goes nuts. O_o

 

Have very minimal complaints about the game overall and there seems to be a semi-decent amount of replay value with some of the stuff that unlocks after beating it. Hard Mode sounds like it will be pretty damn frustrating but will have to wait and see on that. As wary as I was of the music after the demo, ultimately it worked out. Still feel like some of the redone music lost some of its "oomph" but it's still the music I know and love and found myself really enjoying it throughout the game with few exceptions. Still not a fan of a lot of the "Jazz" versions from the music discs though. A few of them were cool, but a lot of it is almost unrecognizable to me. Some of the non-Jazz ones I liked a lot better. Maybe I just don't like Jazz? XD

 

I loved how unique each character felt to play too. Really glad they give you the opportunity to fully use each of them and I found myself switching between them regularly. Also like that you can designate a "primary" for when fights start too if you prefer someone other than Cloud to start.

 

Now for the spoiler stuff

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Overall I didn't mind the changes to the Wall Market storyline. The new character additions were solid, and it flowed decently and still had enough 'wtf' moments to make it fun. The downside for me was in the "interactivity" of it. Not having to search out the individual parts of your disguise made it few too blunt imo. Maybe I'll change my mind a little bit after I go through the effort of getting the other dress types though I'm guessing it boils down to telling Tifa what to wear earlier in the game, and the massage you pick with Madam M for Aerith. Not sure for Cloud.

Was more disappointed in the Shinra building changes not because they weren't also good, but because I was really looking forward to very specific things. Primarily, I miss the scene where Rude and Tseng catch you in the elevator leading to being thrown in the cells and waking up to find everyone dead. Feel like the impact of getting captured and then following the trail of blood not knowing what the fuck is going on and finding President Shinra impaled at his desk with the creepy music and everything would have been AMAZING in the Remake, even with the previously used Sephiroth pop-ups they did. The way they did it with Barrett also getting shanked was good for shock value but ultimately pointless. The loss of atmosphere from the original felt like a downgrade overall. The VR theater thing they went into that did the whole Ancients backstory thing was cool as hell though and I also enjoyed the presentation thing introducing the Shinra department heads and all the stuff relating to the Mayor.

I found the end intriguing but not entirely sure what they were going for outside of "people will want a Sephiroth fight so lets figure this shit out". This (as well a few other bits with Sephiroth) is the only real area where I felt that the game was probably weighed down by the popularity of the original. Like they were ticking boxes on a list. Having said that, I thought it was cool how they did it. It mirrored the final battle in the original as well as stuff from Advent Children so well that it made it visually entertaining and I ended up really enjoying it. I liked some of the 'flash forward' bits they did too. Feels like they were wielding a mallet in terms of foreshadowing but I figure most people know what's going to happen anyway so they probably just wanted to have fun with it and it wasn't enough to spoil it for the few out there that may not know. I feel like they needed a little more context for throwing Zach in there too, but the part where it shows him walking toward Midgar superimposed over Cloud and Aerith walking away from it was full of feels.

Not sure how I feel about the 'Whisper' things overall either. I feel like the implication is that this is effectively an alternate reality version of the story and that they exist to try and maintain things. Like Sephiroth has seen what will happen and is being heavier handed with his goals and they popped up to try and keep things from changing due to his intervention. That's the only thing that really makes sense to me anyway with all the talk about 'destiny' and what not.

I honestly don't think I was a fan of them keeping Biggs and Wedge alive (assuming Wedge is actually still alive at this point). While the plate stuff was happening I was kind of hoping they would figure out a way to keep at least one of them alive because that whole thing was so well put together, but when it was all said and done, I'm not sure that it's ACTUALLY what I wanted. Maybe I'm just salty it wasn't Jessie after they put so much work into filling out her character? XD

 

 

Hopefully it won't take long to put out more. There some interviews translated recently from the Ultimania they put out for the game that says the story going forward won't change dramatically from the original as some people worried it would, and that they were discussing doing shorter, more frequent releases vs bulky releases with a long down time between. As long as it's priced accordingly though, I wouldn't mind shorter more frequent releases. Just wish they would have had a plan for this shit in place already. Honestly annoyed with their short sighted approach to this. I don't know if they wanted to wait and make sure it was actually well received or what but come on.

 

Edit:
Now that I've read your whole spoiler post @Psycho666Soldier, I feel like I was on the right track with some of my thoughts about the end. We seem to agree pretty heavily on what the intent was so I'm confident that is probably the right way to look at it.

[Psycho666Soldier 287]

Like I said, I liked most of the music disc remixes.  There were ones that were either too unrecognizable or just didn't really hit for me.  The one's I really liked were Barrett's Theme, Lurking in the Darkness, The Battle Theme, surprisingly the Turks theme, Fight On(mostly because I'm a longtime metal fan), The full bossanova version of Costa Del Sol, and the Wutai theme.  I think there is an element of me liking jazz on its own so I can appreciate more of it maybe?  But since they were collectibles, I like that they took some approaches of framing it as a style based on music they would actually be listening to.  The Hip Hop de Chocobo cracks me up every time.

 

The uniqueness of each character has me excited to see how others play.  Red will be very interesting.  I can see Yuffie being a bit like Tifa but with probably more of a support role.  Builds up ATB quick to use ninja abilities and probably be your command sponge.  Maybe we can get Vincent's Dirge of Cerberus playstyle in a game that doesn't suck

 

I pretty much agree with your spoilers word for word, down to the nitpicky parts about Wall Market and Shinra HQ and the small details you liked.  As for the final spoiler

 

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I was a bit disappointed both survived as well, mostly because it felt like a bit much.  But I guess the true fan service would have been letting Jessie live, and that's probably part of the decision.  Changing it up without it feeling too much like a Mary Sue fanfic.

 

I do think this creates an opportunity to let Biggs and Wedge have a bigger impact on the story later.  Probably some final stand that lets them go out with more feels built up, as I feel it's mostly Jessie that wrapped people up in the original.

 

[Mera'din 308]

I could see Yuffie being more of a hybrid. Some Tifa style melee stuff along with throwing her Shuriken for some ranged abilities. Maybe her unique ability would to switch styles (ala Cloud) but between melee and ranged combat. Would definitely give her a useful niche to stand out with. Agree with Vincent too. His limit breaks would be a lot more interesting in this style of game too. Cid should be fun too. I played Dragoon in FFXIV when I had played it and it's a fun style of gameplay that would translate well into this system I think.

 

Started my hard play through and got through the first chapter. I feel like it's going to get pretty brutal before the end. Have to be REALLY careful with your MP. I also think it's a dick move that you're not allowed to use items at all, but chests and the breakable crates still drop items. >:|

 

May have to actually use the Refocus materia too. Didn't feel like it served much purpose initially, but in Hard it may make all the difference in some fights.

Side note: It took me WAY to long during my initial play through to realize that the Magnify Materia worked on more than just attack magic and is basically the 'All' materia from the original. Magnify linked with Cure is a godsend. XD

[Psycho666Soldier 287]

You're not alone in taking too long the realize the true use of Magnify.  It's just a shame you only get one.  I usually had it attached to Barrier.  I actually used Refocus a lot on the tail end of the game.  It was pretty much glued to Cloud when I had enough materia slots to justify it.  Made a pretty notable difference.  You can use Infinity's End and still have a bar left over.

 

I think the kicker for me with Hard Mode is that taking away both items AND benches is a bit rough.  I wish they either let you use items in battle or at least get the reprieve of a rest point.  It would give those benches a lot more usefulness, too.

[Mera'din 308]

Wait, there's no benches? I thought that was what you were supposed to use? Not that I'm fare enough in to have seen one anyway but Jeeze. O_o

Apparently you can save scum the breakable crates though if you get into too much of a tight spot I've read. XD

 

And yeah, I thought about using it with Barrier, but I didn't use it enough to justify it over the MP savings of having it on Cure. Regen to all right away in a fight was nice too.

I didn't do much with Refocus, but saw it's usefulness. Was a fan of ATB Boost on Tifa though. Could recharge a bar instantly and really rip into things with her. Apparently I need to make use of Steal as well in this run since one of Aerith's weapons has to be stolen. X_x

[Psycho666Soldier 287]

I'm a steal-whore whenever I play JRPGs.  Especially Final Fantasy.  So this time wasn't much different, but I appreciated that you could see what they had by assessing them.

[Vic Boss 612]

In chapter 8 of Remake

 

The story pacing is not unexpectedly slow as fuck. Takes forever to go anywhere, padded as fuck. The character and small-detail stuff is really good to make up for it (Barrett singing THAT theme nearly killed me), and the way they're fleshing things out is mostly

 

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I love the idea that not everyone is on board with being terrorists that kill civilians and that AVALANCHE is a much larger organization. I don't like the implication that President Shinra is the one helping AVALANCHE accomplish their destructive goals for propaganda purposes, it's kind of cheaply rescuing the main characters from being the murderers they think they are
 

 

 

I absolutely hate how the boss battles will interrupt partways through to take on a new form and reset your stagger, that's artificial difficulty bullshit.

 

We also watched Advent Children the other night. It's mind-blowing that Remake's graphics can rival it (some scenes and settings in Remake look much better, some of AC still blows away Remake, but they're competitive in who has the best graphics). So-so plot-wise (apparently a lot of the additional scenes were the children, which was super-boring) but the battles and the MUSIC (SE-PHI-ROTH) were great

[Psycho666Soldier 287]

Regarding your spoiler:

 

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I mean, that was basically what was happening in the first game.  Reactor 5 was a setup, and the plate collapsing was completely Shinra.  I think the only thing different is the implication that Sector 7 was as devastating as it was because if Shinra's intervention.

 

I agree about the bosses, though.  It never was enough to hold me back, so I didn't really care enough to make a note of it.  But it was frustrating to build someobe up for a stagger only for it be reset because you reached an HP cap.