[Final Fantasy General]

[Vic Boss 612]

I might've missed something, but I assumed Reactor 5 succeeded in spite of the trap Shinra set in the OG game, and dropping the plate was a Shinra-style overreaction to quickly fix the problem.

 

Barrett also held onto guilt about killing innocent people while trying to accomplish the aim of saving the world, which played into him feeling guilt for being indirectly responsible for the destruction of Corel, the game kinda cheapens that by going "Nah, it was the bad guys who killed everyone"

[Mera'din 308]

I personally liked the angle that Shinra was artificially ramping up the destruction as a set up to reignite the war with Wutai. Made it more dynamic and gave them dropping the plate at least SOME purpose outside of "we're too lazy to track down a handful of people despite having our own military, sepcial forces and secret service agents so we'll just kill tens of thousands of people instead for the lols and to make Reeve have a cry". Yeah, it gives an opt out for the AVALANCHE members ultimately, but the effect is still there initially, and it's a small trade off for the more coherent motivations on the other end I think. 

 

Extra spoiler since Ma isn't quite that far yet:

The only thing that  really annoyed me therein is that Jessie never actually finds out that Shinra upped the reactor damage and that her bombs were actually fine. That whole thing fucker her up pretty bad and she never got any closure on it.  

 

As for boss mechanics: Losing the stagger was annoying, but manageable. However, there is nothing worse than blowing a limit break because of that. Watching it do almost no damage because you popped it just before a phase change and the boss goes immune for a bit is almost rage inducing. >_<

 

 

[Mera'din 308]

Last bit of that should not actually be in the spoiler tag and I honestly have no idea why it pushed it into the spoiler and it won't let me edit anything after the 2nd spoiler tag so fuck me I guess?

Repost of non-spoiler comment:
As for boss mechanics: Losing the stagger was annoying, but manageable. However, there is nothing worse than blowing a limit break because of that. Watching it do almost no damage because you popped it just before a phase change and the boss goes immune for a bit is almost rage inducing. >_<

[Vic Boss 612]

I had that happen to me on the first fight with Reno. I did like a sliver of damage and lost out on a lot more.

 

It's dumb as fuck, why teach us the skills to use this battle system and then remove it when we most need to take advantage of it? If the bosses die too quickly, just add more HP like the XIII games did

[Vic Boss 612]

This game is Final Fantasy XIII-4, which means the Final Fantasy XIII series is either heavily underrated/ahead of its time or Final Fantasy 7 fanboys will slurp up anything with FF7 in it that they would otherwise proclaim to hate

[dr. b 492]

I haven't played anything past X and X-2 so I don't really understand what you're referencing in XIII... but I'm assuming it's not good?

[Mera'din 308]

Quite the opposite imo. They use some similar exploratory techniques that 13 employed, but they actually did it right this time, as well as one of the few things that people seemed to like from 13's battle system (staggering).

More elaborate explanation:

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/final-fantasy-xiii-staggered-so-ffvii-remake-could/1100-6476215/

[Vic Boss 612]

It's mostly super linear the way XIII was, but has nice little hub areas you can sidequest in like XIII-2 did, and has implemented and expanded LR's battle system, which was action-RPGish, it still used ATB bars that you had to save up but you can maneuver around the battlefield while doing shit. It's mostly a good thing but with some frustrations. There's times where you can see some treasure chest or something but the game forces you to walk in another direction to see a cutscene first and they botched the stagger system in boss battles mightily

 

Staggering = you hit enemies and a bar fills up, if you hit them with their weaknesses it fills up faster, if it fills up all the way they're "staggered", they fall over and you can beat on them for a limited time without them doing anything until they recover. A major gripe I have with the game is that during most boss battles I've encountered so far, there's at least one point in each battle (usually around the 50% health point) where the boss takes a new form or changes tactics and drains the accumulated stagger bar to zero, which is aggravating as shit.

[dr. b 492]

I don't think linearity would bother me that much, especially these days when gaming time is limited for me and I don't want to waste time just figuring out where to go next. I'm OK with the game showing me the way in that respect. When I eventually got around to playing FFX a few years ago I enjoyed it and it was a very linear game compared to classic FF games. But I do think I would still much prefer a more classic FF battle system to what you guys have described for XIII and VII Remake.

[Vic Boss 612]

There is a Classic Mode that actually does let you play that way I think.

 

Also I'm playing on Normal Mode so those little battle system aggravations are probably more pronounced than on Classic and Easy mode

[Mera'din 308]

I tried classic on the demo. It forces it into Easy difficulty, and the characters (including the one you control) all auto attack/defend so you focus solely on what to do with your ATB gauges (effectively mirroring the original game). I also think going into spell and item menus fully pauses the game instead of just making everything move super slow.

 

And the linearity doesn't feel like a hindrance like it did in FFXIII (feels more like FFX now that you mention it). Whereas XIII literally felt like you were running in a straight line the whole game, Remake makes it feel organic (which honestly, Midgar in the original wasn't terribly different anyway) much like how it was in X. I think if they don't have some sort of overworld type of thing going into future titles though, you may see some people get upset. As much as I enjoyed this though, I'm honestly not sure if it would bother me a whole lot as much as I would miss it.

 

 What Ma mentioned about the game forcing you to go where it wants does get a bit annoying though. I'm very much a "explore all the side paths ASAP" type of person and that got on my nerves a few times, but it's a small gripe next to everything they did right. Mostly I hated it because it was literally the game forcing your character to turn around and popping up a sign over cloud. When they want to redirect you I prefer it being more natural. There were a few places where you can't take a side path because guards are posted there or a gate is closed and you can't open it yet. That feels a lot more natural.

[Psycho666Soldier 283]

I'm pretty sure somewhere I said that FF7R feels like the improved version of everything they've been trying to do since Final Fantasy XII.  That's mostly in relation to the battle system, but also the exploration mechanics and world design.  My problem with XIII(coming from a perspective of not playing the whole game, but watching a friend play most of it) is that it literally feels like walking down a hallway sometimes.  Same problem I had with the final chapters of XV.  And more that the battle system felt like it was lacking something.  This is all in relation to the first one.  I actually think XIII-2 is a fun game that's just too late.  So I think there's nothing wrong with the comparison.  But I do think this game does mostly everything better.

 

I also agree on the forced blocked off areas.  Even if it's literally a wall, I prefer that to an endless void that you're forced not to walk past.  Why did you even let me get that far down the train tunnel if I couldn't go that way anyway?

 

It'll be interesting to see how they handle an open world concept.  The detail for the locations is what was missing inf XV.  The openworld was fun to play in and expansive, but hollow and lacking flavor.  I think some kind of merging of the two would make for a great future of the series.

[Vic Boss 612]

Fucking graphicssssss man, just hit the

 

Plate collapse

 

2 hours ago, Psycho666Soldier said:

It'll be interesting to see how they handle an open world concept.  The detail for the locations is what was missing inf XV.  The openworld was fun to play in and expansive, but hollow and lacking flavor.  I think some kind of merging of the two would make for a great future of the series.

 

I feel like they'll keep the linearity going more than they won't.

[Mera'din 308]

Yeah the visuals in this game are wonderful. It's one of only 2 games so far that have made me reconsider not getting a PS4 Pro (and the other I can get on PC anyway so it almost doesn't count). It's one of the very few times I've actually stopped to take a screenshot in a game just because of the view.

[Psycho666Soldier 283]

6 hours ago, Vic Boss said:

Fucking graphicssssss man, just hit the

 

 

  Hide contents

 

 

Plate collapse
 

 

 

 

I feel like they'll keep the linearity going more than they won't.

I'm not expecting anything super expansive.  All I'm hoping for is some kind of hubworld map akin to a smaller version of Death Stranding's map layout, where the individual locations are fleshed out similar to the different slums and towns here.  So like a chunk of land that stretches between Kalm and the Mithril Cave and includes the Chocobo Farm.  Or maybe even expanding that to include Junon and Fort Condor.

 

That illusion of open world the last games had.  That's all I really want.

[Vic Boss 612]

I'd be down for a Chapter 14 style game.

 

Holy shit, the Pro-level pull-ups

[Psycho666Soldier 283]

1 hour ago, Vic Boss said:

I'd be down for a Chapter 14 style game.

 

 

  Hide contents

 

 

Holy shit, the Pro-level pull-ups
 

 

I think there's definitely some room to open up the environment from an earlier standpoint where you can complete the sidequests at your own pace, yeah.  Even if not, it was definitely one of the most fun chapters of the game.

 

Spoiler

I had to sleep on that after spending like an hour trying to beat that asshole.  Came back the next day and did it in like 2 tries.  Probably the grandest accomplishment in the whole game.

 

[Mera'din 308]

Yeah I saw a LOT of complaining about how hard that was online when I was looking for some tips for it. Took me a solid hour before I managed. X_x

 

I'd be cool with that style of semi-open world too. After this game, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt whatever route they chose though as long as they can keep up the quality we got with this one.

[Psycho666Soldier 283]

Yeah, I mean, I totally get Ma's complaints.  I even agree with a good deal of them.  I just felt the positives far outweighed that.  I can also readily admit that nostalgia plays a large part in that, though.

[Vic Boss 612]

Despite sounding like a bitch, I am actually enjoying my time with the game

 

I think they got the big stuff mostly right and there's a lot of small things that create aggravations that with a slight tweak or two would be done right.

 

And there's just kind of no escaping that they took a 5-6 hour segment of the original game and jammed it full of extension filler and anime filler to bump it up to 30-40ish (I really liked some of it), so on the one hand it really fleshes out that part of the game and the characters involved and on the other, the main story is metered out as a reward for navigating all that padding.

 

I loved Roche in the first bike chase, Jessie-chama was <3, playing as Barrett and getting to shoot out the walls was awesome, the Andrea/Colosseum stuff and sidequests really reminded me of Yakuza Kiwami and I like that Japanese goofiness interrupting a serious story, I'm down for Leslie being in future games (I didn't pay attention to his eye colour but he almost looks like he could be another Sephiroth clone) and I'm intrigued by all this Harry Potter ghost shit and Sephiroth because I could swear at one point that Cloud saw Aerith's death (I have a sneaking suspicion that because they played up Jessie dying that Aerith is somehow going to survive or be revivable in future games)

 

Just about to hop the wall to go for Shinra HQ

[Psycho666Soldier 283]

 

I used to watch this dude's reviews all the time.  He was always more negative about the games I liked, but he never failed to call out bullshit in a hilarious way whether I agreed or not.  He's actually much more generous here than I've ever seen him be about anything JRPG related, but he was pretty spot-on with all the complaints.  He had me dying during some of the quips of the later part.

 

I think more than anything, he's right about the copy-and-paste feel of portions of the game.  The chapters for the Reactor 5 mission definitely suffered a bit from that.  Though I felt, again, this was mostly made up for in the general breadth of location design.

[Mera'din 308]

I still watch his regularly, and yeah this is probably the nicest he's ever been to a JRPG.  

And it sounds like he actually made it through the whole thing. Something that doesn't seem to happen often with him and JRPG games. As such, there are some spoilers from the end so be warned for those who haven't finished it.

 

The main point I agree about is their insistence on calling the game FFVII "Remake". Like, a ridiculous number of games have been remade at this point that just call themselves what they were and are actual 1 for 1 remakes (more or less) and this is more of a re-imagining or adaptation and felt the need to put 'Remake' in the title. Feels a bit confusing.

[Psycho666Soldier 283]

Light spoiler for the end plot, but

Spoiler

I think there's actually a major argument that this game is in fact a sequel.

 

[Mera'din 308]

I don't remember if it was here or somewhere else I've talked about the game where someone was talking about Leslie (Corneo's door guard guy that seemed to get an excessive amount of screentime) but just FYI he is an established character from some side stuff around the time the whole 'Compilation of FFVII' stuff was going. I had remembered that Kyrie was but had completely forgot about him.

https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy_VII_The_Kids_Are_Alright:_A_Turks_Side_Story

[Vic Boss 612]

I think OG Shinra HQ has a firm leg up on the new one.

 

- I understand removing the goofier puzzle elements because it doesn't make sense in a serious setting, but they didn't replace it with anything too fun or super interesting, the beginning is such a slow and plodding part for what should be a tense infiltration of the game's final dungeon/the main antagonist up to that point

- The Hojo part was more annoying than not because I was keyed to three party members worth of materia and the constant switching between groups of two meant having to go into the menu and constantly swap back and forth to have the fourth member properly covered.

- Fuuuuuck Rufus and the dog. I was about to massacre the dog with a stagger and an Infinity Blade and then herpderp cutscene interrupt no damage done fuck off, the single worst mechanic in the game never fails to deliver

- I think there might've been enough content to have Red XIII playable. They maybe didn't have to have him fully decked out like the other characters you've been building up, but it could've been a sort of a promise that you'll get to know this character in future games so here's a teaser for him now. He's my least favourite character so I'm not cut up about it either way, but maybe a small missed opportunity

- The plot differences were super interesting, though. Sephiroth is somehow trying to defy Destiny and the Harry Potter ghosts can't seem to touch him but they can fix the damage his differences are causing (DAT BARRETT/did they kill the shit out of Wedge?)

- Last chapter, START-OH

[Psycho666Soldier 283]

I like how despite us probably coming off less angry about it, Vic is ultimately mirroring the same opinions about the ups and downs of this game.

[Vic Boss 612]

Does that mirroring also include loving the SHIT out of the motorcycle minigame, hoping there's more of it shoehorned into the future released and/or and even wanting a standalone release based on it?

[Vic Boss 612]

End game stuff

 

 

 

It figures this game would have end bosses whose entire existence is about resetting everything multiple times because you're winning

 

As soon as Sephiroth popped in and him and Cloud started CGI fighting I said "Tag me in coach" and then it pulled out to signify the beginning of a gameplay battle and it was YOSHHHHH LET'S GO

 

So if I was following that, we killed some space god who controlled destiny and maybe Sephiroth became destiny too and Cloud could've done something at the edge of creation but then just went home and nothing happened even though Sephiroth accomplished his goal? We collectively killed destiny so Sephiroth has an opening to achieve his goal but we can also conceivably save Aerith and/or the planet from total ruin now?

 

Are there two Sephiroths? Some One Winged Angel Space God remains of Jenova that burped into the timeline somewhere and OG Sephiroth still doing things? But then he killed Barrett which was different from the first time and the Whispers seemed to keep avoiding him but fixing his bullshit. Did he overtake his past self and he's just playing the part to maneuver everyone into place but also testing the extent of his abilities? Or since Destiny is a space god it exists everywhere at once, so the Whispers avoided him because we'd already killed it and he already was destiny but we still had to play out the events in order for it to manifest? Something happened and then didn't happen and then maybe unhappened.

 

I love convoluted bullshit like this in my JRPGs, brings me back to playing FF8 and Chrono Cross on the PS1 and going to gamefaqs to figure out what actually happened at the end ??

 

Z-Zack? Probably just flashback stuff.
 

 

 

8.7/10, 1 full point off for the Boss Battle Stagger thing and .3 for some of the filler/remake changes not working as well, especially near the endgame. 10/10 graphics and music tho

 

Now for endgame materia training and then Hard Mode

[Mera'din 308]

I really wish I would have known about the exp and ap boosts after beating the game because I did a 3-hour arena grind to get Chadley's stupid max magic materia thing done before I went to Shinra HQ. XD

 

I too actually had a lot of fun with the motorcycle minigame. I like that after you beat the game it gives you the option to skip it when you play again too. I'm not going to, but it was nice that they thought of it. I've actually done the first motorocycle part 3 times now since it was the first thing I did with chapter select so I could get the trophy for impressing Jessie since I missed it the first time around, and then did it again when I got to that part on Hard.  

 

 

 

The way I took it, it's just the one Sephiroth still (or, you know, the one-is-many because he can control almost anything with Jenova cells) but something has allowed him to see forward in time (like he's so perfectly in tune with the life stream it allows him to mentally transcend time or some shit) so he's actively trying to nudge events in a different direction to change them. Notice that the whispers start showing up as soon as he does. Anytime he does something to try and change things they're there to nudge back.

 

The first time it's just to give Cloud some hardcore PTSD, but that WOULD have resulted in him completely missing meeting Aerith, so the Whispers 'attack' her to stall out her leaving the area so that Cloud comes along and meets her anyway. They go apeshit when Cloud would have not gone on the Reactor 5 mission and don't back off until they hurt Jessie enough to ensure she can't and they'll need Cloud(if I remember correctly, you even see one lurking around for a split second in Seventh Heaven since things there weren't going according to script either as in the original you join them in their secret base under the pinball machine).

 

I'm assuming they can't directly mess with him because he's just too powerful/tied so strongly into the lifestream of the planet, despite the fact he's working through proxy via Jenova and the test subject/clone guys. They try repeatedly and he's able to just brush them off and they seem to get more desperate as it goes on.

 

The end is still a tad confusing for me. Especially showing Zack randomly throughout it. At first I thought the weird out of time area they were in might allow for it to pull him in and we'd get a cool Cloud/Zack team up fan service moment, but it just played out like showing a flashback. However, it kept intentionally showing Shinra tower swarmed by Whispers in his time too so I'm not quite sure what the intent was. There seems to be the opinion going around that he actually survives his intended death since he doesn't look nearly as bad post fight as he did in Crisis Core and they don't show him drop. If that IS the case, maybe he's going to be made some sort of agent of fate to help intervene since the Whispers were unable to directly affect Sephiroth? If they went for the "save Aerith" idea, they could use him to do that but they said the story going forward wouldn't be very different from the original so I don't know that any of that is the case. 

 

These are all just initial musings I had when I beat up and what I thought was happening than any direct looking into it though. I'm actually looking forward to getting to the end again so I can try to focus more on what's specifically happening and less on the Kingdom Hearts-esque spectacle of it all. 

 
 

 

[Vic Boss 612]

I think this is my 5th or 6th time playing through Chapter 9 :|

[Vic Boss 612]

@Psycho666Soldier What's your PSN?

[Psycho666Soldier 283]

VxDeadxV

 

I was actually thinking I might have to pony up like you guys and put my trophy banner in my signature.

[Vic Boss 612]

Sent. I trophy-stalk and see what people on my friends list have done when I start new games

[Psycho666Soldier 283]

My trophy count's pretty shit.  I used to put more effort into my Gamerscore back when I played Xbox 360 a lot.  So it's nothing too impressive

[Vic Boss 612]

Oye, I'm not competitive about it or anything, I just like seeing what people have done and/or are doing atm

[Vic Boss 612]

FInished off a bunch of post-game stuff today

 

- Completed the Music Discs (was only missing the Dance Practice one)

- Completed the Dress collection

- Finished off the Wall Market Colosseum

- Finished off the Chapter 14 special scenes (not tied to a trophy as far as I know, but it is listed in the Play Log)

- Beat all but one of the Shinra Simulator missions (including the Hard Mode ones)

- That also included finishing off Enemy Skills Materia and beating Malboro

- Found one of the three weapons I'm still missing

 

Still need to find two weapons, defeat Bahamut, beat the horrifying final Shinra Simulator Mission and then start Hard Mode

[Mera'din 308]

You're definitely taking a different approach than me. I've been going through hard first, and then will do the dress/scene/simulator mop up I think.

 

 

 

Though that accessory from the last Simulation battle sounds amazing for hard mode, but the fight sounds pretty fucking painful from what I've seen. Using my time in Ch. 9 right now to get some HP/MP Up materia and Elemental support materia and what not leveled in the coliseum to help prep for some of the shit to come and figured the extra manucripts would help in the long run. Might skip ahead to do those fights if I hit a wall during hard though. Reno was an asshole but for the most part I've been managing pretty well I think.

 

However, Hell House can go fuck itself. Took like 4 tries of getting it down to less than 10% health only to be blindsided by some random ass shit (or miss a Tonberry that it puked out and get shanked) before I got it. Went into the fight with like 70 MP on Cloud and like 35 on Aerith since the story fights don't give you the 50% HP/MP restore between battles. Thank Bahamut for Prayer and Soul Siphon. X_x

 

Pro Tip: Bioga is the best party member in that fight. XD
 

 

[Vic Boss 612]

A pretty good spoilercast, holy shit @ some of this x_x

 

28 minutes ago, Mera'din said:

You're definitely taking a different approach than me. I've been going through hard first, and then will do the dress/scene/simulator mop up I think.

 

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(or miss a Tonberry that it puked out and get shanked) before I got it.

:| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :|

I don't like the sound of that

[Mera'din 308]

 

 

Honestly, it's probably the most straight forward part of the fight. Just have to be ready for it.

 

 

 

It's a pretty long cast and it spits 3 of them out the front door and they come out stunned/pressured so a solid Triple Slash pretty much takes care of them with some light cleanup before they even get to their feet. It's the end of the fight when it summons both Shredder mech things from the previous arena fight that kept getting me (other than one time when the tonberries came out kind of spread out). I would recommend saving your summon for this point and probably saving Aerith's limit break too (especially if you're using Planet Protection). Linking Fire with Elemental on your armor helps mitigate some of the damage too.
 

 

[Vic Boss 612]

Aight, done everything except the final VR and Simulator fights, I'ma do those last and start Hard Mode. Gonna do it as a no-skip playthrough to re-watch the story and maybe slow down a little to take in background character conversations. If I can't end up beating it than no biggie/saves me some frustration with the final two fights I'm saving for last

[Vic Boss 612]

Upon replay, Chapter 1 might be one of the GOAT video game intro sequences

[Mera'din 308]

I'm doing a full playthrough again too, but switched to the Japanese voice overs to see how those are (I think they kept their original VAs from previous stuff if I'm not mistaken though so should be fine).

[Vic Boss 612]

I've been playing exclusively in Jappo, can't do the English voice acting

[dr. b 492]

1 hour ago, Vic Boss said:

I've been playing exclusively in Jappo, can't do the English voice acting

[Psycho666Soldier 283]

I actually like the English voice acting in this game.  But I also don't usually turn Japanese on for video games unless it's based on an anime.

[Mera'din 308]

They're both pretty good for this game I think. It was a big enough budget thing that they put some quality into it. Playing in Japanese though, you can tell they took some liberties with the translation at times. XD

 

Some stuff they didn't bother to subtitle too (mostly end-of-battle lines and such).

[Vic Boss 612]

Coming up on Chapter 9.

 

If I'm not mistaken, from the looks of Manuscript list, you have to beat it on Hard Mode twice

[Mera'din 308]

Yep. Have to do both Madam M and Chocobo Sam's side quests to get all of them. I have to do it a 3rd time anyway though since I still have one more set of dresses to get.

[Vic Boss 612]

Hell House didn't end up being too bad with Elemental>Fire on Armour. I didn't realize you could shoot it out of the sky by using its barrier weakness (I thiiink it damages the little enemies it summons too? Me and one of the Cutters got ran over and it lost half its HP and I don't remember casting a lightning spell on it)

[Mera'din 308]

Yeah, the attempt I did where I killed it it managed to do most of the damage to them for me since they were in between me and it. XD

 

That fight (or the last phase at least) seems to be heavily luck based. Never had any trouble until the last 10% or so of its health (outside of a random Tonberry shanking me once). Shit would just go crazy and I'd lose Cloud to a massive barrage of burst damage and would be screwed after that since I had my Raise materia on him. Last time though I had almost no trouble.