WWE General

[MT 917]

19 hours ago, Death Rider Mox said:

I admit, I did watch Goldberg/Taker

I hear it was a shit show.

[Vic Boss 612]

>Firefly Funhouse

 

What the FUCK, man?

[Garlic Junior 136]

Twitter spat between Rollins and Osperay has been fun today.

[Psycho666Soldier 283]

A lot of people are giving Rollins shit, but I think his frustration is justified.  No matter what you think of WWE writing and booking, the majority of that roster busts their asses to try and make chicken salad out of chicken shit.  And they really came through at Stomping Grounds.  Perhaps Seth saying it's the best wrestling around is hyperbole, but they definitely have one of, if not the most impressive rosters on paper.

[MT 917]

He also went in on Jon Moxley a bit as well. Don't know if he's just doing it because he's the top guy or if he really believes it.

[Psycho666Soldier 283]

I mean, it seems like he was directly asked about it.  I'm sure there's some bitterness because he wanted Dean to stay, though a lot of that kind of sounded like the typical WWE lip service, so it was probably a mix of him showing some of his bitterness while also not trying to bury the company he works for.

[MT 917]

It'd be different if Jon just up and quit but he gave plenty of notice. I guess Seth's just bitter/sad about losing his friend?

[Psycho666Soldier 283]

Yeah, that's kinda how I take it.  Maybe he wanted more backup in trying to make the place great instead of bailing?  It's hard to tell, really.  But it seems the root of it is he's doing his best to make WWE a great place for wrestling, and he takes all the talk about WWE being shit personally.

 

I guess you can't really blame him considering he's supposed to be the face of WWE as Universal Champion.

[Vic Boss 612]

Seth's a pretty far-end WWE fanboy anyways. Those people have blinders on to the world outside of WWE. It probably doesn't compute to him why everyone wouldn't want to be in WWE.

 

Also the WWE itself as an entity and Vince in particular aren't known for looking at their flaws and figuring out how to correct them, they engage more in finding excuses and reasons outside of their control to explain things away. That likely filters down to their top guys too, and a fanboy like Seth is more likely to accept it because he already believes in them anyways.

[Psycho666Soldier 283]

Paul Heyman and Eric Bischoff to take over WWE TV(hired as executive directors under Vince)

 

https://www.si.com/wrestling/2019/06/27/wwe-paul-heyman-monday-night-raw-eric-bischoff-smackdown-live-vince-mcmahon?__twitter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true

 

This....could be a really good thing.  I'm a bit cautiously optimistic, especially on the Bischoff side of things.  But huge news.

[MT 917]

Vince is still in charge so i'm not getting my hopes up too high, but this is huge news just the same.

[Vic Boss 612]

Yeah. Heyman especially tried to go around Vince the last time he was in charge of something and that's why they dropped him from creative in the first place.

 

On the one hand, you've got the problem of 50 year-old guys who were successful 20 years ago being put in charge, which half of WWE's problem is that they don't move on from 20 years ago.

 

On the other hand, god fucking damn I want to see what these guys can do with an increasingly frustrated/concerned Vince funding them.

[MT 917]

 

 

[MT 917]

More info about the Bischoff/Heyman thing

 

Quote

 

The announcement today that Paul Heyman and Eric Bischoff have signed on with WWE to become Executive Directors of the Raw and Smackdown brands is a legitimate announcement, not a storyline situation.

 WWE has been pursuing Heyman to come on board officially in their corporate circles as far back as February, PWInsider.com can exclusively confirm.  An offer was issued to Heyman to come on board full-time as a top member of the creative team around the same time Bruce Prichard was brought back as a Senior Vice President but the conversations were slow in progressing.  Heyman had been working on certain storylines and with certain talents, including Ronda Rousey, Brock Lesnar, Alexa Bliss and many others dating back far before that point.  He's been in the inner circle when it comes to the creative process for some time without an official title.  He and WWE have been circling around this deal for a long time and finally came to terms recently.

 The Eric Bischoff deal came together within the last several weeks.  Bischoff has been working on pre-production of the planned Netflix Hulk Hogan biography film and had a slew of personal appearances booked.  Over the last week, he quietly began canceling those appearance dates, so that is likely when he came to official terms with WWE.  We are told he will be working directly with FOX as WWE builds their relationship with Smackdown's new home.  To say this is a massive return to form for Bischoff is a grand understatement.  We are told that WWE approached him about the role and that his previous work in collaborating with Turner Broadcasting. Spike and other networks in building past TV series was one of the reasons Bischoff was pitched for the position. 

We are told that they will be overseeing all aspects of their individual series, answering directly to Vince McMahon.  They are now the top of the pyramid, respectively, for Raw and Smackdown but obviously McMahon will always have the last say.  One WWE source compared their roles to Paul Levesque's in NXT in that they will be in charge, but it's still Vince's company.

Heyman is expected to continue his role as Brock Lesnar's advocate. There is no word yet whether Bischoff will appear on camera, but given how good of a performer he is, one would think it's just a matter of time.

 

 

Source

[Blackjak 57]

I'm cautiously optimistic as well. Especially if that bolded part about them essentially being what HHH is to NXT is true. 

 

Even if it isn't, I feel like if there's any chance of Vince being open to some changes, it's probably from those two. 

[Vic Boss 612]

My body is fucking ready

 

The thing I'm 100% the most curious on: How is Heyman going to handle the Raw third hour.

[MT 917]

End 205 Live, 3rd hour is all cruiserweights.

[Psycho666Soldier 283]

26 minutes ago, MT said:

End 205 Live, 3rd hour is all cruiserweights.

This would actually be brilliant.  Dunno if it would help ratings, but it would keep me watching.

[MT 917]

Holy shit...Tommy Dreamer considered committing a murder/suicide at Wrestlemania

[Vic Boss 612]

Now there's rumours that 205 Live will be done by the end of the year, and that Hunter's stepping away from main-roster backstage to focus on NXT (and conquering the rest of the indies/monopolizing the industry in other countries)

[Garlic Junior 136]

205 live doesn't help anybody whatsoever.

 

It's interesting that given their respective roles it appears Raw might finally become the wrestling brand (although slightly sad that Smackdown would become the TV show brand). But Bischoff usually makes good TV (I liked TNA during the Hogan era, shoot me. It was good TV just meh level wrestling).

 

Listening to their Inside The Ropes chats, they do still have a great mind for the business and its evolutions, unlike say, a Russo or a Cornette.

 

Fuck, Heyman had me believing Brock Lesnar intentionally concussed Taker as retribution for beating CM Punk and turned me into a complete mark about a 5/6 year old angle the other night. I'll buy whatever he's selling.

[Vic Boss 612]

1 hour ago, Garlic Junior said:

205 live doesn't help anybody whatsoever.

 

It's interesting that given their respective roles it appears Raw might finally become the wrestling brand (although slightly sad that Smackdown would become the TV show brand). But Bischoff usually makes good TV (I liked TNA during the Hogan era, shoot me. It was good TV just meh level wrestling).

 

That era of TNA won an Observer Award for best weekly show, so you weren't the only one

[Psycho666Soldier 283]

Anyone watching RAW?  The show definitely feels different so far.

 

-Started with the Falls Count Anywhere match

-Big spot where Strowman and Lashley went through the stage setup and caused a bunch of explosions(a bit silly), but then had a pretty realistic, under-produced camera angle covering the fallout.

-Corey Graves saying "Holy Shit" on commentary with no bleep

[Vic Boss 612]

DVR'ing and probs gonna start in 2 hours just in case the show still sucks

[Psycho666Soldier 283]

Yeah, it could fall apart.  But it's started great.  The match was good, too.

[Nick 38]

I started watching after that, but just stopped during the Seth and Becky interview bit. It was just painful listening to the two of them.

 

But apparently they were interrupted, so that's good.

[Psycho666Soldier 283]

Yeah, after the first 30 or so minutes, it started turning into a bit more standard fare, but the first hour went by really quick and the overall production still feels different.  Also, no in-ring promos for like the first hour and a half.

[Vic Boss 612]

We ended up watching around 60 minutes (out of about 120ish without commercials) of it instead of the usual 15-20 we've been doing the last few months, so that's at least progress. Though I did give a lot of segments more of a shot than I normally would've specifically because of the creative regime change.

 

I liked the promos, so-so on the storyline stuff, they really need to get rid of that fucking "No wrestling in commercials" shit, beginning of the show was classic Heyman but there's only so much of that stuff you can do, end of the show was sorta cool and sorta not

 

 

 

I guess I'm kinda excited to see what Heyman can do with the Biz Cliz, but WWE also already flubbed the Bullet Club and the real Bullet Club has already moved on another generation from the days of these three. Hard to get the lightning back in the bottle
 

 

[Psycho666Soldier 283]

7 minutes ago, Death Rider Mox said:

We ended up watching around 60 minutes (out of about 120ish without commercials) of it instead of the usual 15-20 we've been doing the last few months, so that's at least progress. Though I did give a lot of segments more of a shot than I normally would've specifically because of the creative regime change.

 

I liked the promos, so-so on the storyline stuff, they really need to get rid of that fucking "No wrestling in commercials" shit, beginning of the show was classic Heyman but there's only so much of that stuff you can do, end of the show was sorta cool and sorta not

 

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I guess I'm kinda excited to see what Heyman can do with the Biz Cliz, but WWE also already flubbed the Bullet Club and the real Bullet Club has already moved on another generation from the days of these three. Hard to get the lightning back in the bottle
 

 

Yeah, the whole show wasn't perfect storyline was.  But there was a marked difference in the overall production of the show.  Promos cut directly into the camera, a reserved, but notable use of cuss words on commentary, trying new weird angles whether they work or not, and most importantly, a lot less in-ring mic time and more of a focus on the action and the in-ring stories.  I do think there was a lot of flat stuff as a result of ongoing angles that need to be worked through, so hopefully starting more fresh angles will alleviate that.

 

It's a start, so we'll see if they can keep the momentum and not derail if things take a minute to really hit home.

 

Spoiler

I think there's enough hype behind it for AJ going heel that it'll work.  Yeah, it's a bit late to get the real Bullet Club buzz they had a chance to capture, but as long as they don't rely on that and let Gallows and Anderson have some credibility, they'll probably be solid.  I do think they would need to throw in a fourth or fifth person to round it out with someone a bit more interesting, though, because otherwise it'll become the AJ show.

 

Not that that's a problem, but it'll make Gallows & Anderson look useless, and overall make The Club look useless.

 

Oh, and totally agreed on the "no commercial break" thing.  Like I said on another forum, they've found a creative way around it this week, but it's already worn thin.  I'd much rather just have commercial breaks like normal.

[Vic Boss 612]

[MT 917]

1 minute ago, Death Rider Mox said:

 

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So much this. Finn being a face has run its course, and with the Shield gone, it's time for a new dominant faction. Then just bring up Undisputed Era on Smackdown for a similar thing

 

[MT 917]

 

[Vic Boss 612]

Apparently they're going edgier now to make sure teens don't get into AEW.

[Vic Boss 612]

Last night's Raw was pretty bad. Heyman's worst traits (bad '90s soap opera storylines) and some of Vince's recent worst traits.

 

As soon as a match gets restarted, I skip the rest of it (though I did stick around for Ricochet vs the Guns n Gallows because I like those two guys a lot). Most of the time WWE does it, feels like they wasted my time on purpose presenting one thing only to flip around and present another, usually lesser thing (singles match I want to see turns into a 6-man tag or something). All these 2/3 fall matches (CMLL does them better so I can't even get into them from the novelty perspective because I see tons of them every week) and all the excuses to not have wrestling in commercials needs to go. Just stop having regular commercials/have regular commercials during set times like actual sports do, or go back to what it was before.

[MT 917]

I saw Brock is the champion again. Yay....

[Blackjak 57]

9 hours ago, MT said:

 

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I saw Brock is the champion again. Yay....

 

 

The PPV was actually pretty great as a whole, easily one of their top 3 of the year. Lots of matches were a lot better than they had any business being. Worth watching. Don't let the final moment ruin it for you. 

[MT 917]

Oh I wasn't going to watch it anyway. The only thing i'm semi interested in is Cesaro/Black. The rest can suck it.

[Psycho666Soldier 283]

Extreme Rules

 

Spoiler

-Reigns/Undertaker vs. Shane/Drew was pretty much the best use of everyone involved and made for an awesome opener.  Undertaker looked surprisingly fresh.  Maybe that's just what happens when you don't give him some other washed up old dude to try and make magic with.  Drew looked decent against the big man.  Roman wasn't completely forgotten. B/84

-I think The Revival vs The Usos was a perfect example of how the crowd reaction can drastically change a match.  Without the sound, they wrestled an awesome match, but the storyline had so much lost momentum that the crowd could hardly be bothered.  And it really sapped out all the energy out of the match. B/86

-Black/Cesaro pretty much lived up to the expected hype and it was awesome.  I think Black might have been losing some momentum with those backstage promos, but he got his heat back big time here.  Cesaro is firing on all cylinders again, too.  This match had some bombs. A-/90

-the crowd was surprisingly hot for Bayley vs. Bliss and Cross.  I love Bayley's version of the Macho Madness jacket.  Also just noticed my boy Drake calling the match!  In general, just a well-told story both in the ring and in the consistent story building up to it.  Bayley also building back up her clout is great to witness.  I'm looking forward to what comes next with Cross having eaten the fall.  B+/87

-Strowman/Lashley was a fucking blast.  Wild from the start, and both men really gave it their all to make this feel like a bitter brawl.  One thing I've noticed tonight is the camera shots feel a bit different.  And even though you could ultimately see the cushion at the end of the match, the way they made it feel like camera's weren't prepared for the slam through the box did wonders for making it look legit.  Also made for that badass shot of Strowman breaking through and walking out like triumphant beast...err...monster.  The smoke and mirrors just barely makes this one better than Black/Cesaro.  A-/91

-Damn, the Triple Threat Tag was awesome.  A couple convincing false finishes, great look for all teams involved, and a surprise victory at the end with a wicked awesome finish.  I actually popped at the end there, because New Day was the last team I thought would do it.  Also happy to see the potential of all of New Day draped in "gold" come the end of the night.  Heavy Machinery fit in so well.  A-/92

-Styles/Ricochet was kind of weird, because the crowd wasn't always there for it.  But when they were, they were really hot.  I think this was another match with a good finish, and the overall home stretch was a treat.  I think the crowd hasn't fully bought in to Ricochet, but this will probably help get some more sympathy for him and put a bigger fire under him.  Styles winning the title makes me think Brock is definitely walking out with a belt tonight.  A-/90

-I'm totally cool with Owens taking out Ziggler instantly with a Stunner.  

-Kofi/Joe was a bit short to become something truly special.  It felt like right when it was kicking into a higher gear, it was over.  Great look for Kofi as champion, and Joe continues to keep himself looking legit before losing.  Was hoping for a bit more, though.  B+/88

-The mixed tag actually felt like it belonged in the main event.  Not in the sense that it was better than certain other matches, but the fact that it felt big and the performers gave it their all to make it greater than the sum of its parts(particularly on the opposing side).  I liked having Baron actually hurt Becky, and having Seth lose it after that was a nice touch for him.  Unfortunately, I think having Brock decimate him after took away from that.  B+/88

Overall, was a really good PPV again.  Not everything got crazy, but the baseline of quality was pretty high.  I'm mixed on ending with Brock holding the Universal Title.  On one hand, it made for a hot conclusion to the show.  On the other, Brock has the championship again, and I don't really know who beats him for it unless Seth gets it back.  I have no faith they actually give Braun the rub.

 

[Vic Boss 612]

I only ended up watching Black/Cesaro,  half of AJ/Ricochet (too long, or maybe the quiet crowd made it feel too long) and the finishes of the WWE and Universal Title matches.

 

G1 season and AEW all on the same weekend = WWE's getting sacrificed

[Psycho666Soldier 283]

You ought to give the Triple Threat Tag a watch.  That was MOTN for me.

[Vic Boss 612]

Did end up watching more Raw than I thought I would

 

That small package line

[Blackjak 57]

13 hours ago, Psycho666Soldier said:

You ought to give the Triple Threat Tag a watch.  That was MOTN for me.

 

Agreed, but I'd even add Strowman/Lashley to that. I really wasn't interested in that match at all and ended up loving it. 

 

 

11 hours ago, Death Rider Mox said:

Did end up watching more Raw than I thought I would

 

 

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That small package line
 

 

 

 

It was absolutely beautiful.  

 

Spoiler

The line. Not the package.

 

[Psycho666Soldier 283]

15 minutes ago, Blackjak said:

 

Agreed, but I'd even add Strowman/Lashley to that. I really wasn't interested in that match at all and ended up loving it.

I'd second that.  I actually loved that match, too.

[Vic Boss 612]

Gentleman Jack vs Chad Gable on 205 was awesome

[Blackjak 57]

I had heard that it was fantastic from multiple places. Finally watched. Holy shit it did not disappoint.  

[Vic Boss 612]

Focus tests on some of the WWE guys and girls

[MT 917]

 

[Blackjak 57]

On 7/19/2019 at 5:11 AM, Death Rider Mox said:

Focus tests on some of the WWE guys and girls

That was actually a very interesting read, though I'm not shocked by the results. 

[Vic Boss 612]

I had two dream scenarios for last night and neither happened

 

Scenario A

 

The New Day's music hits and they bop down to the ring but then suddenly Real American starts playing, Hulk Hogan comes out in aqua and pink, Xavier and Kofi roll a Confederate Statue into the ring, Hogan hits the Legdrop and pins racism for the 1-2-3 while Big E is swiveling his hips in the corner

 

Scenario B

 

The glass shatters and Stone Cold Steve Austin comes out and gives anyone a Stone Cold Stunner

 

[Psycho666Soldier 283]

I don't know what gives you the idea Scenario B would ever happen.  Scenario A felt like such a lock, too...

 

 

Spoiler

 

That show was an odd mixed bag.  There were some spots of greatness, and the matches were pretty good.  But most of the nostalgia was cringe as fuck.  Also, this show felt...unscripted?  And in some cases, it really benefited some moments, like Sami's tirade backstage.  In other cases, it made a cool moment into something a little more awkward, like when Reigns came out to interrupt Joe's promo.  Their interaction felt really awkward.  And there were more people who looked like they weren't quite sure what to say.

 

Bray Wyatt moment was great, though.  And again, there's been a notable production difference that was nice, and was especially noticeable during the Austin promo.  Which kinda made me feel like that could have been their way of showing how a promo should be done in this kind of production setting.  Even for just chit-chatting about the reunion, Austin still commanded attention during it.

 

I also liked Drew decimating Cedric.  That was satisfying.