Diablo 4

[webhead 519]

It's official and despite what a piece of shit Blizzard has been lately, I am still kind of looking forward to this.

 

The thing I am genuinely excited for right now is that this looks JUST like Diablo 2 and they are very much going for that look.  I'm actually still watching the panel right now so I'll probably have more comments later.

 

Cinematic Trailer:

 

Gameplay Trailer:

 

Blizzcon Panel:

 

[h2ojunkie 96]

Haven't watched the panel yet. Looks cool enough. A release date would make me happier though. D3 was released like 3-4 years after its reveal, so hopefully not that long. 

[webhead 519]

He definitely said the words "not soon" and then "not even Blizzard soon" so it's going to be at minimum a year or two.

[Shade Aurion 54]

I'll probably play this but the Blizzard magic is def gone for me. Like Bethesda i've just lost that respect and admiration I had for them.
Looks like D4 is going to have a similar skill tree to D2 so thats a nice touch and the gameplay does look fun. I'd be a begrudged purchase for sure XD

[Galeigh 308]

I am not even gonna look at anything beyond the trailer for 2 reasons:

 

1. Blizz still hasn't redeemed itself enough to get off my blacklist. Though the apology at the beginning of the opening ceremony was a good start. 

 

2. Knowing it will be years before it's released means that most of what they probably won't even make it into the game. 

[webhead 519]

1 hour ago, Galeigh said:

1. Blizz still hasn't redeemed itself enough to get off my blacklist. Though the apology at the beginning of the opening ceremony was a good start. 

That apology was half assed nothing corporate speak.  If that convinced you of anything it was just because you can't stay mad at Blizzard.

 

1 hour ago, Galeigh said:

2. Knowing it will be years before it's released means that most of what they probably won't even make it into the game. 

That's just untrue.  It will certainly be different and evolve but their overriding message at the panel seemed to be going back to the old gothic horror style and having a skill tree.  Basically, the message was we're merging ideas from D2 and D3 which I think is great honestly.  There are a lot of things that are actually BETTER in D3.  In fact, I'd say gear and drops since the expansion are significantly better than D2.  It's just that D2 was much much deeper and the style is a lot better.  The fact that they specifically call this kind of stuff out make me happy.  The specifics though are, of course, going to change but that's fine.

[Galeigh 308]

I know a lot of people are dismissing the apology, but the fact that he stood up in front a crowd in person to make it counts for something. Not enough, but something. The most accurate thing he said was that actions count for more than words. I am waiting to see if they follow through on that. 

 

Blizzard is notorious AF about dropping features they initially pushed hard before they release a game. So, I will wait to see what they talk about during the release year. 

[webhead 519]

21 minutes ago, Galeigh said:

I know a lot of people are dismissing the apology, but the fact that he stood up in front a crowd in person to make it counts for something. Not enough, but something. The most accurate thing he said was that actions count for more than words. I am waiting to see if they follow through on that. 

Yeah but he said and did nothing.  Lol.  That was the most non-apology ever.   Typical corporate apology imo.  If they were serious, they would have completely undone that dude's ban or at least the fucking hosts.

[Galeigh 308]

The hosts were brought back in with a suspension rather than firing and his suspension was brought back down to appropriate levels. He DID break the rules, he himself even admitted it and the hosts let him by not interrupting it so they deserved punishment too. The problem was the EXTENT of the punishment and the statement made in the taiwanese newspaper clearly marking it as being done because he supported Honk Kong over China.

 

Blizz has a looong way to go to get off my Boycott list, but I am also trying to keep a level head here and give credit where it is due, they could've pulled what every other publisher would've done and not even acknowledged their mistake and try to sweep it under the rug. Instead the prez got up in front of a giant crowd at the one time of year when the absolute most eyes are on them and said "we fucked up"

 

that means something.

[MT 917]

The apology was the bare minimum they had to do.

[webhead 519]

53 minutes ago, Galeigh said:

The hosts were brought back in with a suspension rather than firing and his suspension was brought back down to appropriate levels. He DID break the rules, he himself even admitted it and the hosts let him by not interrupting it so they deserved punishment too. The problem was the EXTENT of the punishment and the statement made in the taiwanese newspaper clearly marking it as being done because he supported Honk Kong over China.

 

Blizz has a looong way to go to get off my Boycott list, but I am also trying to keep a level head here and give credit where it is due, they could've pulled what every other publisher would've done and not even acknowledged their mistake and try to sweep it under the rug. Instead the prez got up in front of a giant crowd at the one time of year when the absolute most eyes are on them and said "we fucked up"

 

that means something.

 

That is quaint since it seems fairly obvious that if it wasn't something that angered the Chinese government, this wouldn't have mattered.  Hard to take their "no political" thing seriously as he apologizes while wearing his rainbow pin on his shirt.  Clearly they are fine with SOME political speech, just not the kind that pisses off the authoritarian Chinese government. ¯\_(?)_/¯

[Galeigh 308]

Hence the Boycotts

[Mera'din 308]

The apology was fine if they DO actually follow through with 'actions'. Time will tell.

 

D4 looks cool as hell so far though for sure. As long as they don't pull some auction house level fuckery again, we should be good. Also, not once mentioning or acknowledging Diablo: Immortals was probably a good start. We'll see if that sticks.  

[dr. b 492]

I traded in Diablo 3 a while back. It got boring pretty quickly, and I can just play Diablo 2 whenever I get the urge to play Diablo. D2 is still the best of the bunch. This new game honestly feels unnecessary given that Diablo 2 still exists

[webhead 519]

3 hours ago, Mera'din said:

The apology was fine if they DO actually follow through with 'actions'. Time will tell.

 

D4 looks cool as hell so far though for sure. As? long as they don't pull some auction house level fucke?ry again,? we should be good. Also, not once mentioning or ?acknowled?gi?ng Diablo: Immortals was probably a good start. We'll see if that sticks.  

They specifically called out never doing the auction house again.

 

https://www.polygon.com/2019/11/1/20944504/diablo-4-auction-house-error-37-server-stability-post-release-content

 

45 minutes ago, little birdy said:

I traded in Diablo 3 a while back. It got boring pretty quickly, and I can just play Diablo 2 whenever I get the urge to play Diablo. D2 is still the best of the bunch. This new game honestly feels unnecessary given that Diablo 2 still exists

 

I've never found either of these games fun to play alone though TBH.  I assume you didn't have a group to play on since you were on console.  I want something new though, not to just play D2 for 20 years but I also want it to actually feel like a Diablo game and this is a massive step in the right direction so far imo.

[dr. b 492]

I'm quite happy to play single player, so of we're different in that respect. I also don't have any issue with continuing to play the same game for a long time, as long as I still enjoy it. For me there isn't really anything in D2 that needs fixing. I like it the way it is, and I think the odds of Blizzard making a better Diablo game are not very good. I think I'd rather see them come up with a new thing instead.

[webhead 519]

There are definitely a lot of people that think D2 is perfect and never needs changing.  I put a number of hours into that game as well and I thought some aspects of D3 were better and some aspects of D2 were better.  Honestly, I ended up having more fun with builds and loot after many many patches to D3 than I had with D2 in a certain sense (more drops, easier to switch builds etc).  D2 has a great atmosphere though and a much deeper system for stats and such.  What I don't want though is an overcomplicated mess just for the sake of saying it's complicated and "deep" like say...PoE.  I tried that game out briefly and hated it.

[webhead 519]

Article drop, some interesting stuff:

• The First Look At ‘Diablo 4’ Raises A Few Red Flags
• Here's how Diablo 4's shared world works
• Blizzard Explains Diablo 4’s Loot System, And It Sounds Really Good

 

Couple Panels as well:

 

 

[MT 917]

God, the thumbnail on that last video...nightmare fuel.

[webhead 519]

First panel got taken down AS I was posting this so...yeah I dunno.  I downloaded and I might throw them up on my server for download if people care enough.

 

Also yeah that fucking thumbnail...jesus.

[Garlic Junior 136]

I'm just here to be on the first page so that in seven years time when the game gets released and this topic is 200 pages deep I can quote myself.

[webhead 519]

Icy Veins forum member wrote up a huge "everything we know" post.

https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/46709-everything-we-know-about-diablo-4-so-far/

[Shade Aurion 54]

 

 

 

 

On 11/2/2019 at 10:55 PM, Mera'din said:

The apology was fine if they DO actually follow through with 'actions'. Time will tell.

I dunno about that. Seems like an empty apology filled with posturing to me

https://www.pcgamer.com/au/blizzard-president-clarifies-decision-to-ban-hearthstone-player-and-two-casters-over-hong-kong-controversy/
 

PC Gamer: I wanted to revisit the statement you made at the beginning of the opening ceremony yesterday. You said Blizzard is "committed to everyone's right to express themselves in all kinds of ways and all kinds of places," and you made a commitment to do better going forward and that your actions are going to matter more than words do. Are you going to be repealing the punishment against Blitzchung and the two Taiwanese casters involved in this incident?

J. Allen Brack, Blizzard president: We are not.

Why?

So, one of the things that we talked about in the commitment to expression about all kinds of ways and all kinds of places, is the fact that we're huge believers in free speech, and we're huge believers in free expression. We have a long history of that being part of the culture of the company for employees. That's certainly part of the culture of the relationship that we have with the community. And so employees are free to post on their social media accounts. If you think about the people that we have that are esports athletes, our Grandmasters, or anyone who is participating in esports, they're free to say and do whatever they want on their social channels. I feel like we have a far more open set of guidelines and policies than really any other traditional sport that takes a view around making sure that all of the people stay on message. And so, that's how we think about free expression and how we've contextualized it.

We want the official broadcasts, which are a small percentage of the overall content that gets created, to be about the games. And we want those to be focused on the games. Again, it's not about the content of Blitzchung's message. It's about the fact that it was not around the games. If we hadn't taken action, if we hadn't done something, you can imagine the trail that would be in our future around doing interviews. They would become times for people to make a statement about whatever they wanted to, on whatever issue. That's just a path that we don't want to go down. We really want the content of those official broadcasts to be focused on the games, and keep that focus.

So Blizzard's perspective is that, of course you want players to express themselves, except for when it's taking place through official channels?

That's right.

Is it fair to say that if Blitzchung had said any political message, it would have incurred the same punishment? It wasn't that he was specifically calling for Hong Kong's freedom, it was that he was saying anything political?

That's correct. The content was not the problem. It was the fact that it was not about the game in question, it was something very specifically different. I think, and I don't want to speculate around if he had said this, that, or the other, and how would it have gone—I think that's a difficult thing to think about, but it's not about the content of his message. There are many people that are supportive of him and his message.

---

Sounds all well and good right? Exceeeept..

https://www.vg247.com/2019/11/03/overwatch-coach-hong-kong-tweet/

So he's outright lying here. And then also the fact that this announcer is allowed to say things like "Sounds good" when people support free speech and democracy but he doesn't lose his job so I guess those other two announcers who did nothing wrong were only fired to appease Chinese stock holders.
 

Lets also not forget that J Allen Brack is wearing a LGBT pin during his 'faux apology' so clearly certain politics are apparently okay. He's just a hypocrite and pandering to that 4.9% of Chinese stockholders.

In summation, Blizzard are outright lying and this 'apology' is worthless. He said actions matter more than words and you know what? He's right.

---

I stand by my previous position. I'll probably play Diablo 4 but the magic is dead. There are good developers in Blizzard but the higher ups are just corporate shills who will happily sell out Blizzards morals for Chinese money. Now Blizzard stand beside Activision, EA and Bethesda for useless corporations focused only on making money whatever the cost.

[webhead 519]

• Diablo 4: Unveiled
• Diablo 4: Systems & Features
• Diablo 4: World & Lore
• Diablo 4: The Art of D4
• Diablo 4: Artists at Work

Someone reposted all the videos from Blizzcon.  We'll see who long these last.

[Mera'din 308]

Not that I disagree with you Shade, but some of that is misleading. The thing with Jayne happened WAY before Blizzcon, back before they had even responded and reduced the casters and Blitzchung's punishment (the tweet was from the day after Blitzchung's protest and was removed the same day it was put up).  If they have in fact started to adjust their stance since then, this doesn't really apply as evidence to the contrary. Like I said though, time will tell. Not terribly promising either way with how things have been however.

 

Blizzard's half assed, mostly hollow efforts are at least a step up from what Riot is doing. A few days after the stuff with Blitzchung happened, Riot released a statement effectively warning their casters and players away from making political comments on their broadcasts. This coming shortly after it was noted that the team "Hong Kong Attitude" never had their full team name spoken on air and casters regularly cut themselves off from saying the name and quickly altered it to "HKA" instead (though Riot claims that wasn't intentional or driven by them). It's also important to note that Riot Games is WHOLLY owned by Tencent. >_> 

 

On a side note, Blitzchung has been signed to a Hearthstone pro team, so he'll be ready to go when he can compete again at least. The team sighted that they value "character and integrity" as much as skill in the announcement.

 

Back on topic, I'm really liking the systems I'm seeing for D4 so far. Especially how weapons (for Barbarian), and forms (for Druid) can transition with the ability you use. It's a really neat concept. Art direction is really cool too. Watched some of the art presentation where they talked about all the different "families" of monsters they'll have. Hopefully that means a bigger variety overall than we saw in D3.

[Shade Aurion 54]

In my defense, i'm going half off memory and half off shit i've read Regardless, it seems strange for Brack to act like freedom of speech is Blizzard policy when it obviously isn't. IF (and it's a big if) IF they have changed their stance than there is nothing to prove that currently except them not firing the presenter who said "sounds good to me" which amounts to very little. Frankly, if they were changing their approach they'd condemn the posts by netease on the official chinese Hearthstone twitter instead of acting like it didn't happen and unfire those two innocent presenters instead of making bullshit excuses. If this is supposed to be Blizzard "doing better going forward" there is a lot left to be desired, that's for sure. It's sad really that a paltry 4.9% of investor stock can swing a company from being all about freedom and unity to pandering to the likes of an authoritarian communist dictatorship or at the very least, a company that stands by those positions. Either way, their words will forever be empty to me til I see a real example of them standing by their community and the values they've claimed to stand by for years. As it is, it's just sad to see a developer I previously held in such high regard sell out so obviously while making bullshit excuses all the way to the bank. Sad and pathetic. Somehow that interview and the forced takedown of a social media post flew under the radar for the most part so I figured i'd share while the topic was still relevant. I mainly quoted you not to direct that comment at you but because it's a sentiment ive seen many share without knowing about the other stuff. Personally i'm not taking their word anymore.

---

As for Diablo 4, what i'd love to see is them bring back all the old classes from 1 and 2 complete with skill trees. It rubbed me the wrong way at first when Diablo 3 broke tradition and just mix and matched/recycled rather than making new classes like 2 did after 1. It grew on me eventually but the Necromancer was way less good. I'd like to see a return to form at least partially mechanics-wise for re-used character classes and if they are going to bring classes back, bring them all back. Variety is always a good thing and the roadmap is already there in Diablo 1 and 2. It'd be nice to have a Warrior, Rogue, Barbarian, Paladin, Sorceror, Sorceress, Assassin, Druid, Necromancer, Amazon, Monk, Witch Doctor, Demon Hunter, and Crusader to choose from and after they overcharged for the Necromancer DLC, they could really make the effort for some fan service because that was pretty damn cheap of them.

I'd also love to see some lesser evils come back, like Duriel and such. Maybe bring back Mephisto so he isn't nearly as much of a complete joke

[webhead 519]

They already said there were going to be 5 classes so that ain't gonna happen.  Though maybe over the life of the expansions.

 

I actually thought the Necro in D3 was one of the best parts of D3.  I had more fun with that class than any of the others up to that point.

[Shade Aurion 54]

 

 

 

 

13 hours ago, webhead said:

I actually thought the Necro in D3 was one of the best parts of D3.  I had more fun with that class than any of the others up to that point.

They shared thematic concepts but the skills had pretty big differences that affected builds. Expiries on the summons was pretty lame TBH
I don't know how much got eventually patched but at launch, but it was pretty underwhelming and felt gimmicky if anything and a much more active class as opposed to the former version which was more about raising an army to fight for you while you provide support. There's a lot of pros and cons but overall it was a different experience. I know a few people that were a bit annoyed with it. All in all, a different beast. If you enjoyed it though, that's good. To me, it just didn't feel worth making one let alone paying for it.

5 classes to start off with is fine but each DLC should add 2 classes. That would be a nice bit of fan service and frankly, Blizzard should be doing a lot more of that to make up for their recent shortcomings. I mean they could make up for it all with words but political action i'm not so sure. Just developing more good shit and not standing by bad politics. I mean fuck, republicans and democrats alike were up in arms over their recent actions. After the repeat backlash, they should stick to making games so it can all blow over. Recapture some of that magic for people. I'm sure Overwatch 2 will go a long way toward that.

I'm torn personally. I want new classes and returning old classes. Or at least some of the more prevalent abilities

[webhead 519]

I played after a few patches.  Main build was a mage casting one.  I guess it was a little more active but man it was fun.  Once you got the ring that let you create 2 mages per cast, shit got real.  Rathmas baby.

 

https://www.icy-veins.com/d3/necromancer-skeletal-mages-build-with-rathma-and-jesseth-sets-patch-2-6-6-season-18

[MT 917]

 

[dr. b 492]

I dunno about Diablo 4, but I’m probably gonna buy Diablo 2 Resurrected when it releases this fall!

[MT 917]

36 minutes ago, little birdy said:

I’m probably gonna buy Diablo 2 Resurrected when it releases this fall!

 

[webhead 519]

On 6/30/2021 at 7:32 PM, little birdy said:

I dunno about Diablo 4, but I’m probably gonna buy Diablo 2 Resurrected when it releases this fall!

Same!  Not really sure about D4.  We'll see.  Will not be pre-ordering.

[h2ojunkie 96]

No pre orders. But I will likely get both of them if they aren't broken. 

[webhead 519]

D2 Remaster I preordered without much hesitation.  I watched the dev interviews and they know what the fuck is up.  D4 is definitely a wait and see how launch goes kinda thing.  I'm not super stoked with how Blizzard at large has been.  Vicarious Visions is actually pretty great but Blizzard....man....I don't know anymore.

[MT 917]

 

[h2ojunkie 96]

I see them spamming facebook with ads/teasers, just waiting for any concrete dates. 

[h2ojunkie 96]

6-6-23 release date. $70 for standard edition.

[dr. b 492]

This seems like a pretty fair beta review from D2 YouTuber/streamer Dbrunski:

 

 

The limitations on trading sound dumb, but, for example in D2 I only ever play offline single player, so what do I even care about trading  

[dr. b 492]

Any of you folks getting in on the Diablo IV open beta this week?

 

A few different D2 streamers I follow on YouTube are playing right now, so I'm just following along with them. The opening cutscene was rad. No comments about the gameplay yet as I've only been watching like 10 minutes  

[MT 917]

Waiting for the open beta next weekend, don't feel like pre-ordering.

[dr. b 492]

I don’t have anything that can play this game anyways so no pre-order from me either

 

From what I’ve seen so far, the game looks decent, but IMO certainly more comparable to D3 (what little I remember of it) than D2. I enjoyed the parts of D3 that I played. Not nearly as much as I enjoy D2, of course. I hope to try D4 someday. 

[h2ojunkie 96]

I hopped on a stream for only a few minutes and it looked pretty good. I'm probably going to wait for the launch before buying it. But that may change and I just pick it up ?

[webhead 519]

I'm definitely waiting for launch.  Not a day 1 buy but interested.

[Mera'din 308]

They're doing an actual open beta (as opposed to this one which is the "early access" pre-order beta) next weekend. I plan on trying it then. It's got like half a chance to impress me before I even think about maybe buying it. XD

[MT 917]

Sat in the queue for about half an hour, played for about 20 minutes before getting booted. Ran fine for a bit, then would slow for a bit, and then ran fine, etc. I closed everything but the game and it still slowed down. I don't know if it's this specific error I got or if it's most errors, but I apparently had to exit the game and re-queue, which fuck that. I'll play it again later. Gonna try lowering the resolution next time I get in and see if it helps.

[h2ojunkie 96]

I played for maybe an hour last night. It was running OK, just a couple frame drops every now and then. I guess I was lucky and got on when there was no queue. 

[Mera'din 308]

Mine was running great until I got past the prologue and put me into the part where all the other players are running around. From that point, I had regular, severe frame drops and a lot of rubber banding and desynch issues. Was pretty frustrating. They are looking into that and the disconnect issues people have been having though, so there's that at least. 

 

Outside of the performance issues, the game has been pretty fun. They really upped the visuals and how they present the in-game scenes. Was impressed with a lot of what they've done there. Gameplay seems suitably Diablo. There is a touch of some of the things they did in Immortal that weren't scummy and actually kind of cool, which is nice, but it also gives me pause to wonder what their endgame systems might be like.  

Might wait a week or two if I get it just to see what the consensus is after people have had solid time with it.

[h2ojunkie 96]

Yeah I spoke too soon. I was getting those issues after finishing the prologue part as well. Overall it was fun to play.

[Psycho666Soldier 283]

Based on vibes, how much more does this feel like Diablo in comparison to Diablo 3?  I only played a small bit of D3 as local co-op, but it didn't have the same feels as D1 and D2.  So I guess I'm wondering if D4 does anything different that might appeal to someone who's gut reaction to D3 was lukewarm?